Saturday, 24 July 2010 09:01
If ever you wanted proof that a player wanted out of a football club - Luke Young gave it to us in May when he spoke about feeling cheated.
For the life of me, I don't know why he wasn't played every week in his best position but I am also at a loss as to what Martin O'Neill wants from a player - mostly because Luke Young seems to offer it based on how we play.
But, I think he only has one more season left on his contract so chances are high he will be leaving and the talk is today he is off to Fulham. The thing is, if we don't get cash for him now he and Nigel Reo-Coker will both be agreeing deals with new clubs in January, for free but on very good salaries or with some very nice signing on fees.
Football is so much more than just football these days and you have to be good at all things and if those two do leave next summer for nothing and Martin O'Neill leaves too and the new manager comes in and has nothing to spend - it is going to be tough for him and the club will be in a huge amount of debt for nothing.
Emile Heskey off to Blackburn
Here is a prediction for you; if Heskey does go to Blackburn, he'll do well and we will wonder why he didn't get all the man of the match votes while with us. The answer will be because Fat Sam will be playing Heskey as a lone striker in a variation of 4-5-1 and that is what he is good at.
It was what a lot of us thought he was brought to the club to do too, seeing as we were playing 4-5-1 when he came and doing so well, but O'Neill reverted to 4-4-2 and well, it all fell apart.
This is just a rumour but I think it would be a win-win-win situation and when you get one of those - you have to grab it.
Nice one geezer, but that's as far as the conversation went
We have a video of the day again. Pulp were from a time before things got serious and we are still in pre-season now so not completely serious, so here we go. This is a great song.
Right, I'm off to watch my first match of the summer. I love football.
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AussieLion
said:
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... First?? And basically what I said at the bottom of the previous post about the Milner thing being fishy. |
VillaNick
said:
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... Luke Young had a hard time with missing the start of the season for personal reasons. Cueller took up the right back postion in his place and Young couldn't win it back. Thats what happens in football so feeling him feel cheated sounds like sour grapes to me. I don't even think he's all that myself. |
DAJ
said:
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... Ive come to the conclusion that we need another Manager, and we need one quickly bfore any more damage is done. Its seems its only the fans and his friends in the media that are backing him at the moment. Pity a lot of people involved with the club and see the day to day bizarre antics of this clown dont feel the same way. And thats come from within the club. I dont even know why im bothering in mentioning it, cos ive obviously made it up, and i have an axe to grind. But i dont really care what people say or call me, its the truth and you can take it how you like it! Ive sat on it for the last month, and i cant hold it in any more, and it comes from the coaching side of things, and by thats all im saying. But before you all start slagging the info off and giving me abuse, step back.....think about it for a second, think about what we do know involving him and certain players, because believe me, its more than certain players. Thats it, im off...and thats all your getting. Roll the abuse from the Martinettes  |
av dan 78
said:
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... rocky5 said:he`s a better rightback than cuellar agreed. mon should play him. he is one of the best English r/b in the country. |
Lew Chatterley's Lover
said:
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... Young is a great right back, Cuellar isn't, and unfortunately this was a major factor in us not finishing 4th and losing a cup final, O'Neill is a very silly man. Heskey's a complete donkey whatever the formation, think Blackpool would be his best bet but if fat Sam wants him great, I'll be very shocked if we get anything for him. Come back to haunt us ? I doubt it somehow. |
bobvillian
said:
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... I am getting the impression MON is talking up a, young for a bid from rival clubs.dont be suprised he goes as well as milner?like parker sullivan says we cant afford him but i think he will sell for 10=12mill which i must say is overpriced big time but he is a MON type player hardworking ect.to old and injury prone.please do not go near him.i really do fear for villa if we dont bring in quailty signing, |
boumavilla
said:
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... yeah, he said he denies he wants to leave the club i believe it was on sky sports news the other day! |
KrisAVFC
said:
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... 24 million "final" offer for milner. good thing about heskey going is 1) He's rubbish and 2) we'll be the only club left in the top flight not to have signed someone, so MON might get a move on!!! |
Damian
said:
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... boumavilla i think that was in the mirror originally and it wasn't him - they were quoting 'a friend' - but i get what you mean we should also not forget that to leave newcastle didn't milner hand in a transfer request? also - o'neill didn't say that milner say he wanted to leave. o'neill said milner and his agent 'intimated' - so to some extent the friend is right |
pongo
said:
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... It's pretty obvious Milner will go, I expect early next week. As long as we get 25 million, I'd be happy even though he was our best player last season. If we can convert the money into 3 quality players it will make us a stronger team. I for one trust in MON, I don't think he's perfect, but what manager is? Whatever people think of him, he has turned Villa into a very respectable club again that can compete with the top teams, his players are committed and will run their arses of for him and I genuinely think we can do well in the cups again this coming season, wouldn't bet against winning the league cup. Will we break into the top 4? No chance imo, we just can't compete with the financial power of the big boys, and football is all about money these days. That doesn't make MON a bad manager or Villa a bad team. I will be more than happy with a top 6 finish, good cup runs and a real stab at Europe. |
Robn81
said:
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... Milner does want to leave and will leave but we can manage without him, however if rumours are true today that Ashley Young is going to Spurs then we might aswell give up now. |
qashqai
said:
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... Imo Luke Young is one of the best R/Bs in the league and I just cannot understand why MON refused to play him. Fulham must be laughing to pick up such a quality player for a cheap price after we paid 5 million !!! The thought of watching Cuellar in his position really pisses me OFF. !!!!!!!!! |
Hobbsy
said:
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... Why are people listening to crappy rumours about ash young. Read his comments after peterboro |
vivavilla
said:
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... If Heskey leaves it will be a great day for Villa. Nothing against the bloke personally, but the football we've played since he joined has been awful. Here's a prediction: if Allardyce plays Heskey as alone striker Blackburn will get relegated. |
Damian
said:
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... Hobbsy one person has mentioned it - you are the second. i assume you are then talking about yourself when you refer to 'people' |
VillaDude
said:
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... Reading MON's comments, it seems any player at Villa can leave, as long as the price is right.. Anyone read the General's comments? It's our wage bill that is killing us... As soon as Sidwell, L Young, Heskey, Shorey etc are off the list, Randy will sanction the moves.. Shame the players above are on such high salaries they are willing to see off their contracts just like Harewood.. |
cyprusvilla
said:
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... good luck nathans 2day against the french and what happed with the boussouffa transfer |
Hobbsy
said:
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... Ok roben81 - read youngs comments after peterborough after game on Monday, and damo no need to nit pick mate I am to contribute from my I phone as my wife is driving!!! No mean feat!!! |
Luckynumber7
said:
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... why are so many on here infatuated with Martin O'Neill leaving our club? He's a good bloke and a good manager. Probably, without underselling Villa, the best we could get. He gets good lads in and creates a great work ethic; in a world full of over paid full-of-themselves young lads playing the game. It's not an easy job and what he's done at Villa in the current climate should be admired by all, not criticised. Damian - I've no idea what's going on in your head mate. I don't know whether you think that if you write it down on here enough, someone will read it from the club - take it to Randy and show Martin the door? But it really is getting slightly dull now. You've made your point, you don't believe in the way he runs the club. It's your opinion, your blog, and I guess you can write what you want - but from a reader's perspective, I'd love to see you pick some positives out. As for Young and Heskey - I have nothing against either player. Heskey does what he's asked to do and knows his limitations. As was stated earlier - Young lost his place and never got it back, that's football. like so many, I'm sure previous seasons and games and results and players become a little blurred. Not the important ones but the nothing games. I've been watching premiership years on sky these last few weeks, I urge you all to do the same if you think that Martin O'Neill hasn't improved our club and improved our players. |
VillaDude
said:
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... Apparentley Blackburn have dismissed any interest in Heskey! DAMN IT!, He's going to be another Harewood and see off his contract... |
joe coghlan
said:
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... I dont understand what you mean about Ash playing in the hole ( I am a girl) isnt that where other teams put 2 men to mark him? |
vivavilla
said:
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...why are so many on here infatuated with Martin O'Neill leaving our club? He's a good bloke and a good manager. Probably, without underselling Villa, the best we could get. Sadly that could well be the case. |
KrisAVFC
said:
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... i think MON's a good manager definatly in the top 5 of the premier league however i'd prefer to see Redknap in :-/ |
MoodyVilla
said:
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... Same old blog, same old Mon in the same old window. Milner will go if we get the right money. If we don't he will stay, it's up to Man City. We will sign maybe one player before August, and we won't sell many before we know if Milner is leaving. Sidwell, Shorey and Harewood are dead certs to come off the wage bill. If Milner goes we won't need to sell anyone else. I'd like to see Heskey leave and I'd like to see Coker and Davies stay. We'll need Coker if Milner goes, as Delph is injured. Sit back, relax and wait for the signings after the season has started. We know how he does business, we know we have a bit of cash but need to offload a couple of bodies. We know we will more than likely sign Keane and maybe a couple of others. Stop whingeing and speculating. |
Damian
said:
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... Luckynumber7 it isn't infatuation, but seeing as you ask you believe the hype, have unrealistic hopes and then you say he is the best we could get. you accept that sixth then is the best we are going to get but do you not want better? you seem like a clever enough chap - so if you do want better you also have to accept that we need better you also have to accept that maybe, the next man that comes in might not be better, or on paper he might be but it doesn't work, so we will have to try again and keep trying but if we dont change - 6th is all we are going to get. i sense you will be happy with that. others are not and other believe we do have a good set of players and that those players can play better football more irony - when something positive is written - you are nowhere to be found. only picking up on what you perceive as negative and then asking for something positive on those posts as for o'neill leaving. i would see that as a positive step because it would suggest to me that our owner does want better than 6th. you will see it as negative - that is where we differ |
AussieVillan
said:
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... All I want before the start of the season is heskey gone ! He should never play for villa again ! Fonz should always be the first attacking sub ! And why hasn't shorey left yet , keep young get rid of him first ! Wait and bêye ! |
Villa Deltic
said:
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... The problem is that we are just not moving for any players, the Noses are looking at the same players as us Hleb is their latest rumour and we are just sitting back waiting till all the other clubs have bought the players. Flamini will be gone next if somebody offers him a home !! We need to dump Milner for 24 Mill and buy Flamini, Witzel, Defour, Keane, Hleb, McGeady and get Ireland as part of the Milner Deal. I know these are mostly midfielders but that is the engine of the Team and cahnging that around from game to game will only help keep them all fresh. We need to keep Carew and Luke Young, and rotate our CB's Dunne, Cuellar and Collins so they don't end up Knackered all the time. Its no good MON selling players if we are not going to get about 4 or 5 real decent ones back in. Randy and MON need to wake up before its too late, the clock is ticking and the players are being snapped up by our nearest rivals. Don't say i warned you but we were lucky to beat the noses both home and away last season, this year if we do not buy quality they will trounce us and MON & Randy will cop the wrath of us all. |
frosty
said:
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...... Thats just put me right off lunch. |
Alan fron Aussie
said:
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... How many of you really believe that O'neill would say no to Spurs ( it's on there website that they are considering a bid for Young ) if the price was right for Young and then he might buy McGeady ???? and have some money left over, and as some of you are saying - " it's all about business" |
bobvillian
said:
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... the big wages at villa is all down to MON;he is the reason why he has to sell first?falkner takes over that role from now so we should be better run.this is the only mistake randy made to give MON complete run of contracts ect.Now its coming home to roost and he f**ked us up good and proper? |
Simeon
said:
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... Damian According to Mat Kendrick writing in the Mail a couple of days ago, Luke Young has three years left on his contract. I don't know whether this is a good thing or not, given he's just turned 31. I would guess - assuming he's on a decent wage - this makes him a little less attractive to prospective buyers, unless he's willing to agree a contract on different terms with a new club in order to secure first-team football. But I cannot believe that a decent Premiership outfit won't come in for him, because I think he's still capable of playing to a high standard. What I can believe is that we'll shoot ourselves in the foot by demanding an unreasonable fee for him, and we'll be stuck with a player who won't get a game. I'd love to see Heskey leave this summer, but I'm not convinced that O'Neill is interested in selling him. If he were, surely the surplus six would be a surplus seven. Carew leaving is far more likely in my opinion. And finally, excellent choice of music. |
Damian
said:
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... Simeon Matt Kendrick might be right but I was under the impression Luke Young singed in August 2008 on a three year deal not a five year deal. But I'll hold my hands up if wrong ... |
Luckynumber7
said:
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... Damian - no no! 6th certainly isn't what I'm happy with. I accept that it's a decent place for a team like Villa with the resources that we have. I still believe that with a little good fortune, and a few extra players, we have the chance to break into that group. I believe that collectively our spirit and determination may be enough to get across the line and achieve CL, ahead of the collective group of money grabbers at City or others around us. Apologies if you think that I only post on the negativity, it isn't my intention to do so. I'd just like to log on and see - Martin O'Neill, the season ahead - and why I think Villa have a chance of some silverware! or something to that effect. In fact - I think you post article's from readers from time to time - maybe I should have a crack! Anyway -which game are you off to later? The Villa? |
Simeon
said:
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... bobvillian Our manager's inability to appreciate the finer points of modern football is frustrating. His determination to stick with the same bunch of players, rather than make use of other players he has signed, is confounding. But the money he has wasted on players who have contributed next to nothing to this club (whether that be becuase they're incapable, or because they've not been given the chance), both in terms of transfer fees and on wages, has done serious, lasting damage to this club's finances. A year ago I believed that if we appointed a top manager, this new manager would have enough to work with to give us a real shot of breaking into the Champions League. Twelve months on, and I'm less confident that we'd be able to attract a top manager to the club, and that even if we did, it would be a fairly tall order to finish in the top six. Twelve months from now, I think a new manager would have to look at a four or five year project to get us into a position where we can compete with the strongest clubs in the country. The real irony is that in twelve months time Martin O'Neill might be the perfect manager for a club like ours who want nothing more than to consolidate themselves in the top half of the Premiership. I'm often accused of not giving our manager credit, but I believe that if he is at a club with limited resources (and we're increasingly looking like we fit this description), he will be able to virtually guarantee Premiership safety, and will more than likely keep that club in the top half of the table, because his players will basically work their nuts off and be hard to play against and hard to beat. |
FatKevs
said:
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... The Sooner the fans realise the problem with our club is the Yank & his PR deputy Dog instead of blowing smoke up there asses the Better. If he had more than just a 20day interest in the club it may be different but we are an unfashionable toy he has little interest in. To be successful in football you need the desire & input & it is not just £ notes despite what many will tell us. Our club can only move forward under this management based upon what other clubs dictate. A progressive club would be active from Day 1 working within there management plan. Our So call 5yr plan was torn up in yr2 & we have been beholden to other teams ever since using what ever excuse we can The football is s**t but worse we have no heart |
Simeon
said:
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... Damian I certainly wouldn't be taking Mat Kendrick's word as gospel, and you might be right. I guess either way it probably doesn't matter too much, because surely Luke Young will do what he needs to do to get a move, and surely the club will realise that it makes economic sense to allow him to leave, even if the fee we receive for him is relatively tiny. I'd hate to think that Luke Young would be happy to just sit around and pick up his wages (and I seem to remember him saying in that interview he did that he needs to be playing regularly at his age), even if I couldn't blame him for doing so. And I'd also hate to think that Villa would be so stupid as to hang on to a big wage earner just because interested parties weren't willing to cough up an extra 500k or so. |
TMG
said:
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... My views, Carlos Cuellar is a solid CB but a liability and a donkey at RB. Luke Young is a dependable above average RB who has been scandalously sidelined for no apparent reason other than taking time out after his brothers death! Martin O Neill is a ditherer in the transfer windows and we lose precious time integrating new signings when they do eventually happen. We are forever 'linked with' this one and that one and nothing happens. We are ASTON VILLA but we don't realise it sometimes. |
taglor
said:
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... MoodyVillan to quote you "Milner will go if we get the right money. If we don't he will stay, it's up to Man City." "We will sign maybe one player before August, and we won't sell many before we know if Milner is leaving. Sidwell, Shorey and Harewood are dead certs to come off the wage bill. If Milner goes we won't need to sell anyone else." "I'd like to see Heskey leave and I'd like to see Coker and Davies stay. We'll need Coker if Milner goes, as Delph is injured." "We know we will more than likely sign Keane and maybe a couple of others." And then you have the hypocrisy to say "Stop whingeing and speculating" You are one massive contradictory hypocrite. How dare you speculate and whinge then tell others not to. This is a Villa Blog, a forum for personal opinion. Say what you like but don't tell others what to do when you can't do it yourself. |
Craigy1874
said:
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...taglor said: Now theres a man (or woman?) looking to pick a fight !! |
mickey86
said:
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... why dont villa just pay the players off who we cant sell, offer them £500k, well then lose about £2.5million per player per year off the wage bill. Either that or just play them and get use out of them. Reo-coker, Luke young, Emile heskey and too an extent nicky shorey would all get games at most teams apart from chelsea, man u and man city. |
Chiefy
said:
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... all the links either dont work or ask you to do stupid surveys then dont let you watch nothing |
fastbackace
said:
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... thanks anyways boys... woke up bright and early 6:55 to watch game... and with a bit of a headache i might add...  |
churchill
said:
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...as for o'neill leaving. i would see that as a positive step because it would suggest to me that our owner does want better than 6th. you will see it as negative - that is where we differ Every time someone suggests that they're happy enough with O'Neill and the things he's achieving, an accusation is made. It's always the same accusation and I would guess it's been made, on this blog, thousands of times. If you don't want O'Neill out then you lack ambition. I don't want O'Neill out and I don't lack ambition. I just know that some truths are eternal. Wanting something to happen doesn't make it so. You can want success so badly that its fulfilment becomes an obsession. You can pray and wish for something so badly that no other thoughts enter your head. Still ain't going to happen. Success is a function of skill, experience, hard work and available resources. This list is not exhaustive and I may have left something out. One thing that is not on the list is just wanting it. There is no other manager, who would come to Villa, who would do a better job. If you disagree tell me who I'm missing. He is accused of having favourites and not rotating his first XI. It doesn't matter how big the squad, some players will be better than others. Stands to reason. Why wouldn't he pick the ones he thinks are best on a regular basis? And finally, and probably most controversially, I believe the best right back, in a defensive role, is Cuéllar. I'll concede that going past the half-way line gives him a nose bleed, but he is rarely passed by a winger, gives tremendous arial support when needed, and his long throw is a big asset. Simeon I had to read you comment (no. 41) twice to understand its meaning. I'm still not sure I do. Have you had an epiphany? If you have, I welcome it. |
DAJ
said:
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... When your club and its manager tell the whole wide world we need to sell before we buy, then we are basicly telling the waiting vultures that we will listen to any reasonable offers on ALL our players.......hence Rubber ducks reported interest in Ashley resurfacing. I think our club deserves better than this, and i see no differnce between our current owners and Randy. Look at the clubs actions rather than the soundbites, and if you can all be bought by free banners and coach travel, then you are a double glazing salesmans dream! |
taglor
said:
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... All this debate is starting to seem pointless and a waste of time and energy. Are we really going to challenge, manure, city, arsenal,chelsea and now tottenham. Course we are not so really what is the bloody point, fast forward this season and lets see what is happening with owner/manager, this season is just another of going through the motions. |
Rowley Villain
said:
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... churchill You are on the money there and I agree with everything, with the exception of Cuellar! Unfortunately, people on here, including the bloke running it, seem to be so pessimistic and negative towards the club as a whole that they can not see what you and I see. I am a supporter. I support. |
taglor
said:
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... Well done you rowley and churchill. You must be so much better fans than the rest of us. How dare anyone be negative, even if they ahve given 20 years+worth of time and money towards a business that has given them 1 league cup in return. |
taglor
said:
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... So what has mon won for us? Until the ansewr is otherwise I am happy to be an armchair critic and say YES I could do better because I sure have hell have done as well as him so far. |
churchill
said:
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...Well done you rowley and churchill. You must be so much better fans than the rest of us. How dare anyone be negative, even if they ahve given 20 years+worth of time and money towards a business that has given them 1 league cup in return. Tags, Now you're being silly. Where did I or Rowley say we were better fans than others? Check out the clubs in League 2. They've never won anything, yet they're supported by fans with time and money for over 20 years. And Walsall, and the Blues. Are they being cheated as well? I forgive you because I know that you get up in the morning to bitch about the Villa and, secretly, you harbour romantic thoughts about O'Neill. |
Rowley Villain
said:
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... taglor Chill out homie you must be so angry that your words are all mixed up. Listen, if you had been a fan for 20+ years you would know the club has returned 2 league cups, not 1 Also, what has MON done? Given us stability, successive top 6 finishes, 2 trips to Wembley, possibly the best squad I have seen at the Villa (I'm 24) The negativity isn't justified, that's all bro. I am happy to be an armchair critic and say YES I could do better because I sure have hell have done as well as him so far. I can't quie make sense of this. How on earth can you justify that comment? As a STH in the Holte I can say that the majority of 'supporters' like MON and Lerner. You only have to listen to the amount of times they sing about them both to know that. Be negative if you want Taglor. Just be constructive ok boo |
Matt T
said:
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... Fact of the matter is that a maximum of 5 Premier League clubs can win a trophy this season (FA Cup, Premier League, League Cup, Europe League, and the European Cup) Should we, by proxy, sack every manager who doesn't win a trophy? Following on from Churchill's comment - I agree that there are many clubs that have won nothing and, to the end, sometimes I wonder if our 1982 European Cup win seems to make us believe we are a lot better than we really are. Remember Forest won the cup twice before us, and they aren't even in the Premier League. As for wanting more - yes of course I want Villa to do well. I also would love to have all the money I would have over my lifetime right now so I never need to get a mortgage. The reality of the fact is that it is (like instant success) completely unfeasible. |
Matt T
said:
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... On a connected note, show me a recent Villa manager who has stabilised the ship at Villa for 3 years+? |
Matt T
said:
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... I have also given the team years of support, but support doesn't mean success. The people who want instant success should consider supporting Man United, who will (most likely) win at least one trophy this season. Sometimes I do think people suffer from a distinct lack of patience. I'm not saying 5 years isn't a fairly long time but a) it has got better as time has gone by, b) who would replace MON who would could actually attract and c) don't you think the state of flux when the new manager then has to buy in his own players/sell most of ours to fit their own system would cause more disruption? |
td
said:
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... think back to the oleary days and then say that we have not progressed. who else do you think is going to do the job that oneil does. rednapp has spent a fortune, (one for you and one for me). Hughes the same, all the top sides spend more than villa because they (so they think) have it. Do you want another Leeds. support your team,with more vocal support at villa park and then maybe players will want to stay. The atmosphere at home is crap, moaning, groaning f's all round the ground does not make the players give their all. Oneil is the man to lead us into the future. |
bobvillian
said:
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... my brother is at game in ireland he has text me to say our midfield is garbage not a scobby-do how to unlock 2nd string defence.MON better get in quality players or as i have been saying on blogs its a long season?i know its only a friendly but the signs are worrying. |
Matt T
said:
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... This idea that we can continuously improve season on season on the level of climbing a place a year is insane too. We have got progressively better, had more points per season, and constantly stayed top 6. Name a recent manager who stayed in the top 6 (not one who came 6th as a one off then finished lower then back in). People mess up (Ferguson didn't win the title again last year - should he be sacked?) It would be perfectly acceptable to get us to move up the league if we were competing against teams that we not advancing too. Considering the fact that I would generally say we were (till recently) unlikely to finish above Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea, and that Man City now have unlimited cash to spend, then 6th seems a fair enough position for now. The other way of looking at it would be to be look at Spurs - who have sold many of their players for profit (as we are trying to do with Milner) in order to progress. It makes no sense because if MON does the former, then he is told he is not good enough, if he sells top players who, I may hasten to add, have asked to leave, then he is selling to buy. Can the bloke win? |
john doyle
said:
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... it dont matter what we say boring mon will be here for this year at least as for money its all about building ateam and playing thr right players in the right places the sooner mon lerns this the better before the world cup everybody said germany had no chance because they had no name players after the world cup they have a team of name players its up to the manager to make them name players non of our kids our name players but if mon played afew they might be its not all about who has the most money its about yactics and the way you play as a team .matt t and rowley villan its the way we play and you 2 must like it a lot of us on the other hand would like to see a vast improvment on our style of play . and why is heskey still a villa player and i am sorry to say mon is a one trick pony when it comes to tactics so we have to put up with it last year i can hoenstley say that i only enjoyed 5 home games the rest we where s**te away i enjoyed at least 10 why because teams attack us away at home we dont have a f**king clue all this is down to mon no one else |
taglor
said:
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... Hey I am confused? Comment on villa website? the official one? I take back all that I said, just been on google street maps and typed in the villa and just got a semi as I clicked all around the ground, can't wait to go!!! |
VillaNick
said:
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... Why negative about the result today? Its only a practice game for god sake. My brother watched the game and said we looked good, the youngsters looking sharp and ready particularly Albrighton which is a great sign. |
kie mcgrath
said:
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... @john doyle, i think you might need to go back to school and learn some punctuation. |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Matt T Where has it Got Better the football is Kick & Rush, We decide not to field our best teams in cup competitions. 1 Man owns our club no more shareholdes Fans no longer matter just corporate diners the future Buy to Sell Not able to attract players Things are much better |
Matt T
said:
|
... VillaNick Exactly. It's a chance to try out youngsters ahead of the season, it's not a Europa League match. |
Matt T
said:
|
... FatKevs, Kick and rush? I think it's more a case of the team that he is working with - we are based on pace (Young, Gabby etc), so we break well. We got to a semi-final of a cup competition and a final. If that is not fielding a proper team, then that shows us to be a lot better rather than worse. Buy to sell? In what sense? Selling to make money? It's a business and everyone has to do it. Look at Spurs - they have done it with players like Berbatov, and when they sold Keane to Liverpool. Would you seriously tell me that you wouldn't have traded league position with them last season? Who? Also, who are you blaming this on? Lerner or O'Neill? As for one man owning the club, I'd have Lerner in charge above Ellis every day of the week. |
Matt T
said:
|
... I am not a particular fan of MON, but I do not see who people think we can realistically replace him with that would do better and would actually manage us. Lerner is one of the best things to happen to the club. People who discredit him and say he doesn't invest money should wake up from whatever reality they are living in. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Who would you prefer FatKevs? Allardyce? Hughes? Curbishley? Like it or not, that is the level of manager we could attract so, comparably speaking, MON is pretty good for our level of status. |
Matt T
said:
|
... PS FatKevs, Not able to attract players? When could we ever attract top drawer players? The last big name I can remember is Luc Nilis and sadly we all know what happened to him. |
DAJ
said:
|
... Anybody at Peterboro last Monday would of seen some decent football played. In fact, we played it along the deck pretty well. Not sure if thats being carried on today. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Churchill I guess you would be referring to the part where I say O'Neill would be perfect for us, and if all that Lerner wants is a team that will retain their Premier League status at a low cost, season in, season out, then O'Neill could be that man. The irony is that this is true despite our manager having wasted so much money over these past four years. But if the well is dry - and at this point in time it is, in the sense that we are fully geared in terms of our wage expenditure - then, the damage having been done, there is no more harm that O'Neill can do. But I'm not willing to believe just yet that Lerner is content with mere survival in the Premiership, and I would guess that he'd understand that the fans would find this kind of scenario difficult to buy into. I think Lerner certainly had grander ambitions initially, otherwise he wouldn't have authorised the levels of spending we have seen in the past four years (i.e. utilising all our financial muscle up front, rather than spreading the resources evenly over a longer period). Maybe he now realises that these grander ambitions aren't realistic, and now he has scaled down what he wants to achieve to fit in with this new reality. Maybe he is looking at an exit strategy, and looking to sell the club to someone with the wherewithal to compete with the big boys. Maybe he feels that he's given the manager sufficient backing already, and that O'Neill needs to make better use of his resources before he is entrusted with more. (Krulak's comment about players contributing nothing whilst drawing a wage might be significant.) I don't know, and I think it's too early to judge Lerner's intentions. Perhaps we will have a better idea of what Lerner wants to achieve in twelve months time, but I am still firmly with those Villa fans who believe that if Lerner sticks with our current manager, that he is either happy to continue along a road along which there is no prospect of Champions League football - and therefore moving the club up a level - or he simply has complete faith in O'Neill as a manager. In either case, we will continue to achieve nothing worthwhile. |
Simeon
said:
|
... As a by the way, one manager who would be a clear step up from our prsent one, and who is currently being linked with Fulham, is Ottmar Hitzfeld. I don't know whether he'd be the right man for the job. I haven't spoken to him. But that this kind of manager is being linked with Fulham shows what is possible if we were to aggressively pursue a new manager. Martin Jol was very eager to join Fulham, and whilst I'm not a huge fan of his, there's no doubt that he has a pretty big reputation. If a guy like that is so interested in going to a club like Fulham, it stands to reason that manager's with even bigger reputations (and more importantly greater talent) would be extremely interested in a club like us. I've mentioned Frank Rijkaard before, currently managing Galatasary. Apparently he wasn't available to take the Liverpool job because he is under contract in Turkey. But he won't be in twelve months time (unless he signs a new contract) and I think if we made an effort to get him, that he would be in our range. That's two managers who I think it would be difficult to argue don't have far greater pedigree than Martin O'Neill. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T Of those three managers you mention, I'd take Allardyce and Hughes over O'Neill in a heartbeat. I'd be more reluctant about Curbishley, but if he was the only man available to replace O'Neill, I'd take him as well. But as I just posted in reply to Churchill, we can do better than this - unless we are less attractive than Fulham that is. |
Maindog
said:
 |
... My heart is excited for next season, my head however is really not bothered! Football is slowly being killed. |
Andy
said:
 |
... Easy question for you guys....Who wants Champions League football for Aston Villa...? I do....Who's with me..? Yes or No. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, I would have Martin Jol, but he isn't available and doesn't want to take Ajax to court to leave. As for why he was linked with Fulham - it is London, and he obviously used to manage Spurs so maybe he still has a place there. If MON left at the end of the season for whatever reason, and Jol turned up, I would be happier for the team, but I would also expect a few years of finishing below 6th while the team adjusted. I am, like you, a supporter of Lerner rather than O'Neill. That said, while he is still our manager, I won't resort to being one of the boo boys, but I will acknowledge his obvious flaws. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Andy I certainly do, but I think it's now a long way off, even if we can find ourselves a top manager. Maybe if we appointed a genius this summer we might do it in two years. But otherwise, it looks to me like a four or five year project at the least. We had a gilt-edged chance the season before last and blew it. As it happened, we had a chance last season as well, as Spurs demonstrated by actually getting 4th. But now, Man City will take up residence in the Champions League, probably at the expense of Spurs, although I don't think either Man Ure or Arsenal can afford to rest on their laurels, and there's no reason why Spurs couldn't establish themselves if they make a couple of good signings. It's going to take some considerable effort on our part, and probably some mistakes on the part of our competitiors, to make Champions League football a possibility. |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
 |
... Ashley Young was bloody shocking. I didnt see one bit of effort from him all game. He was lazy, and he gave off that "im so much better than all these lower class players" impression. Also, i dont think i saw Gabby take more than one touch at a time. Im worried by some of the lad's performances. It was poor. On a lighter note, Albrighton was brilliant in the second half, and the Villa support was something to be proud of. John Carew showed his class from the moment he came on, they couldnt even get the ball off him. His goal was very good too. Al in all, we lost 2-1 to a team that lost 4-0 to TNS a week ago. Not very impressive. UTV! |
Matt T
said:
|
... I don't however think either Hughes or Allardyce would be better. Hughes spent reams of money but didn't really do much, and Allardyce peddles the same lacklustre, boring football as O'Neill - the only difference is that he studies the games through a laptop. Sure Allardyce did well to get Bolton to Europe, but didn't one Mr O'Neill get Leicester to win the League Cup too? His move to a "big" club didn't work out too well from the opinions here either... |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... Ohh and Habib Beye was CLASS. For a right back, hes incredibly good technically. I can see him as a first team regular next year. |
Andy
said:
|
... Aero...These friendly games are always a let down. Players like Ash and Gab etc are not going to really go for it in a friendly because they don't want to get injured. PLayers like Albrighton will be out to impress too. I wouldn't get too worried by the friendly results. I seem to remember a couple of years back where we won every friendly convincingly and we were rubbish in the league. I also remember losing games like this pre-season and playing great in the league. I am sure the player will have just been told to use it as a warm up. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Andy, Precisely. For first team players, friendly matches are just like another day at training. It is the players who aren't currently playing (Beye, Albrighton etc) who will play out of their skin to get in the team. People who read into today's match are going too far. If it's the same result against Blackpool at home, then it's a completely different kettle of fish. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T I'm not convinced by Jol. Though I believe he'd be an improvement on what we have, as I say, I believe we can do alot better. But I don't think he'd have any hesitation in coming to manage Villa, despite it not being in London. I also agree that results in the short-term under a new manager are likely to suffer (although if we finish 8th this season, which is perfectly possible, then a new manager will, in one sense, have an easier time of things). But then I have always taken the view that there is nothing wrong with taking one step backwards if it allows you to take two steps forwards. In fact, that is a sensible thing to do if the alternative is standing still, and in all likelihood sliding backwards in time anyway. I am, broadly speaking, behind Lerner, and I appreciate the investment he has made in the club since he arrived. I am very worried that he lacks footballing nous, as his complete faith in our manager seems to indicate. It has been mentioned by a few people that the club might benefit from a Director of Football figure. Although I wouldn't want to go down this path, I do believe that Lerner should have someone on the board who can act as a 'football' adviser. A wise old head (or young, as the case may be) who has an excellent knowledge of world football (or at least European football), and who can give his opinion on how things might be done differently. As things stand, Lerner is a hostage to the manager in football matters. O'Neill is the only 'expert' at the club, and as such he has far too much power. |
Genital Grinder
said:
 |
... Aero, Did you really think Ashley was shocking? I thought he was one of the more livelier players for most of the game. Gabby wasn't great though, looked a bit chunkier too! Would totally agree about Albrighton, he's a proper winger, Bannan looked very good to me too, and Carew really made a difference up top, his first touch was class, got a great reaction. And yeah the support was fantastic, I think all three sides that were open were Villa fans! Even in the Jodi Stand, where I thought all the Bohs fans would be, I could see nothing but Claret & Blue. As for the result, I wouldn't worry one bit, these things happen every summer, we beat Juventus in a cup final last summer and then lost at home to Wigan. Need I say more? |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, I also agree that taking a few steps back to go forward is perfectly acceptable. I agree too that should O'Neill finish below 8th this season, the argument for getting a new man in would be relatively straight forward. If not Jol, who do you think then? Hitzfeld as you have previously mentioned? Or Rijkaard? Not too convinced by Frank just yet - he is still a (relatively) young manager. I think what we need is someone in the mould of Jogi Loew - although obviously I doubt we would be able to attract him (till after 2012 at least) |
Matt T
said:
|
... Andy, Ha ha ha. Phil Brown. Well we'd certainly have an entertaining rapport with the media |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... Dan, Yeh i went. The ground is only about two miles from my house so it was the first time i didnt need to take a plane or a boat and bus to see Villa play. Bohs are my second team too, so it was a bit strange cheering against the team i watch every Friday night.  Andy, I suppose your right. And considering Bohs are still in the middle of their season, it wasnt too bad a result. UTV! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, Yes O'Neill has too much power due to his desire to control things, but remember who his mentor was (and the success O'Neill saw him to have). Sadly for O'Neill, it is no longer practical to use 1978 tactics to win games and, as the last match of Cloughie showed, Forest were relegated on Clough's last match in charge. If that doesn't show to O'Neill that the same ethos is not 2010 suitable, I don't know what is. Clough was a legend (and I admire the bloke immensely), and O'Neill is right to look up to him, but he is from a different time, just as other greats like Alf Ramsey, Bill Shankly etc were. I think we need to have a consortium of players involved to advise on players - call them scouts if you have to. People like Ian Taylor and other true claret and blue ex players who are fans of the club. I don't however see how O'Neill would agree to this as he would consider himself to be being undermined. We don't need a Director of Football, but we do need more scouting and input from people who are not the manager. |
Matt T
said:
|
... All in all, I just think O'Neill is clearly a better motivator and coach, than he is a tactician. I think that is where the flaws come out as we are playing 4-4-2, playing the probability game of putting 100 crosses in from the wings and hoping 1 connects. Sadly, even with this logic we only have one pacy winger so it is usually pretty obvious when pace breaks down the wing that the ball will be at Young's feet and not Downing's, followed by a pass to Gabby, or a cross to the already advanced Carew. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T Talk to some City fans and they'll tell you they wanted Hughes to stay, because they could see that progress was being made. Had he stayed, they may well have finished fourth. We don't know. What we do know is that alot of the players were unhappy with the decision. Bellamy one might expect, being a fellow Welshman who had played under Hughes before. But Tevez was also know to be upset, and it's fairly certain that there were quite a few others as well. I would agree that Hughes wasted a proportion of the money he was given, but he also made some excellent signings as well. But given that he was managing Man City, and therefore automatically having to pay over the odds, and given that it's likely that some of the signings were bought for him, rather than by him, I think it's unfair to judge him so harshly. Three points on Allardyce. First, he is excellent in the transfer market, and is able to sign players from across the whole of Europe and integrate them into his team. Second, Newcastle, as we now know, was not a club set up for success. He was probably the wrong type of manager to go there, given the irrationality of the Newcastle fans and their penchant for kamikaze football. And he was given very little time. To judge him on what he did at Newcastle is very unfair. Third, in the League Cup semis last season, Blackburn played much better football than we did. I was surprised, because I knew how Bolton played under Allardyce. But nevertheless, Blackburn are a more attractive team than we are, and they could quite legitimately argue that they were extremely unlucky to be knocked out by us. They were controlling the game and had got back on level terms when Gabby scored a goal that was offside (and it wasn't marginal). Shortly after they then had a player sent off (and I imagine that their concentration being shaken by the offside goal had alot to do with it), and after that it was all over. Except they still managed to put four goals past us on the night. At any rate, I'd say that criticising Allardyce's brand of football demands the same criticism of O'Neill's. In conclusion, I'd say that Allardyce is the equal of O'Neill in mny ways, but in one crucial area he is vastly superior, namely that of transfer dealings. I would feel so much more comfortable with Allardyce spending Villa's money than I do with O'Neill. |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... Genital Grinder, He was alright with the ball at his feet but never looked bothered when off it. When he lost the ball he would just stand there, never running back to get onside. He barely ever made a tackle and never went on a run and beat a few players. Ohh and what was the story with free kicks and corners? Every time he would shout to someone else to take them. That was a bit confusing too. UTV! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, Yes - I agree that Allardyce's brand of football deserves exactly the same criticism - which is why I think swapping for him wouldn't be a step forward. I also acknowledge that Allardyce bought some good players at Bolton (didn't he buy Okocha and Djorkaeff - which for the size is pretty oustanding). Hughes - well yes, it's very difficult for us to know who of his signings were bought by the board rather than him. I think he was spoiled with that amount of money, something that our manager has been (on a significantly lesser scale). I also agree that he probably would have achieved the same position as Mancini, but then to finish where Man City did last season will be seen as failure by the board. I think Man City are a rule unto themselves - I can honestly see them becoming just like how Real Madrid were in the original Galactico era, just without the benefit of actually having the history or draw of Madrid (besides the wads of cash). What price that Mancini is sacked if City don't get top 3? |
Andy
said:
|
... Simeon.....I'm not a fan of Sam. I would not personally have him. Not exactly sure why I think that. I just think it could mbe my expectations and ambition is for better maybe..? Can I just say one thing though about Big Sam.....IF he does actually go out and buy Heskey, then we should have a total block on Big Sam ever coming to Aston Villa as manager |
Matt T
said:
|
... I personally would have loved Hodgson, but there's no chance of that now (even in the future given the man's age) as I think he will be at Liverpool and then finish his career at England. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Andy, I second the "Veto Allardyce on the basis of purchase of Heskey" motion. Ha ha ha - two wrongs do NOT make a right |
Matt T
said:
|
... The big thing that I do have to query is this... We apparently have one of the best academies in the country, so explain why we rarely see any of our products achieve the highest level (in fact can anyone think of one that has ever done so)? |
john doyle
said:
|
... as for a new manager how about hollaway from blackpool at least hee plays the game the right way and lok what he did with 3 mill last year got them up wht would he do with our money this guy is shere class and talks a lot about the right way to play he trys to copy spain at a team like blackpool he would be a big improvemnt on MON |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T I don't know who I would choose as the new manager. I'm not in a position to say who would be best for the club (although that doesn't mean that I can't see we can do better, for those who were thinking it!). An outstanding candidate on paper might be a disaster for whatever reason. You need to be asking the right kind of questions and getting the right kind of answers when you're conducting interviews (or having talks, as I suppose is now the case). The job Hittzfeld has done with Switzerland is fantastic. I thought they'd be a joke at this World Cup (although this was before I knew who the manager was). But they were probably the most well organised defensive team in the competition. If they'd had even one decent attacking player they could have gone to the semis, as Uruguay managed to do. His work in German club football is superb. He is considered by many to be the best coach in Bundesliga history. If we appointed him, I'd be very excited - even if I don't think we'd be seeing flamboyant football down at Villa Park. but what we would see is a very well-organised team who knew exactly what they were doing, both going forwards and defending. At the moment, I think our gameplan is essentially to be the fittest, hardest-working team on the pitch and see what happens (though I'd agree with your description of our attacking play). Frank Rijkaard would be a very different proposition, and in some ways a more exciting one. He's younger (though he still has twelve years of managerial experience), and he wants his teams to play attractive football. If we appointed him, again I would be very happy. But my guess is that neither manager would be willing to take the job unless they were given a decent amount of money to spend. (If they'd been offered the job when Lerner first came to the club, and he explained to them how much money they'd have to spend, I think they'd have been very interested. Whether the club is in a position to make an attractive enough offer now is uncertain.) It is very difficult to say who will be realistic targets for us next summer (if we are even looking to appoint a new manager at that point). But a club of our size and standing (even if we're sat in the middle of the table), should be able to attract a manager who can do the kind of job this club needs, and who can do it very well. Even if that means appointing someone we've never heard of, or someone with a very low profile - a manager from a lower league, or a recently retired player. |
Matt T
said:
|
... John Doyle, Give the job to a man who has done well at a small team with no resources who then would have no idea of how to spend £140m? Wait a minute... we've already gone and done that with O'Neill... He took Leicester up, and won the League Cup with them twice. More than Holloway has done, but it seems that O'Neill is still disliked here so Holloway would stand no chance. |
bobvillian
said:
|
... how many more games does albrighten have to play well to be given a fair crack of the whip.best player on pitch by a country mile |
john doyle
said:
|
... matt T the reason is mon dont rate them as in the acadmey and 2nd team they play the ball on the deck not kick and rush all mon wants are runners not skilfull players which is what gorden cowans teaches them to play he says that at least 6 of the current lot will make it trouble is with mon it might not be at villa park as i have said before sid was a far better player than mon and is magic with the kids is the first team have to play to mons tactics and we all know what they are |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, I agree re: Hitzfeld - the guy has done very well. I could probably think of a number of people who would also be good appointments from the continent but I, like you, have no idea as to how they would get on at Villa having only seen their public achievements in football, rather than the minute details of how their club was run. Here's a complete curve ball for you on two different managers - what do you think? A) Steve McClaren? B) Someone like Olof Mellberg? |
john doyle
said:
|
... Matt T dont you read the reasons its the way we play this guy dont play kick and rush like mon as i have said all the kids are tought to play and i am sure that our current squat could play the proper way if told to |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, I also agree that Villa as a proposition was a lot more marketable to a manager when O'Neill came than what it is now. That said, I have no doubt that if Lerner does change manager, he would provide some kind of transfer kitty, and the new manager would cash in on some of our assets (I used the term "cash in" loosely as I'm unsure who would be worth money who the new manager might sell - Ashley Young maybe) |
Matt T
said:
|
... Of course the other postulation could be that Lerner isn't happy and his £140m he had to spend on transfer targets didn't make any profit (well besides if Milner goes to City) If that's the case, and Lerner is looking for an exit strategy, then I genuinely feel sorry for the bloke as he must have expected more for his £140m than a (possible) profit of £12m on one player. |
Simeon
said:
|
... john doyle Holloway would be interesting. He certainly speaks entertainingly about football (and sometimes very perceptively), and he has had a decent level of success for most of his career. Obviously his achievement at Blackpool speaks for itself - although it is only one season. Sean O'Driscoll at Doncaster should be mentioned, if only because his teams apparently play very good football - even better than Martinez' Swansea team from what I've heard. And Paul Lambert could be the kind of guy who really develops into something special given the chance and a little bit of luck. Matt T, Andy I'm not about to start an 'Allardyce In' movement! Despite Blackburn outclassing us for long periods last season, I wouldn't be appointing him on the strength of that alone - particularly when the majority of the evidence suggests he is, to put it politely, a pragmatist (although there is nothing wrong with pragmatism of course). And as I say, I believe we could definitely do better. But I stick by what I said about him being a more trustworthy steward of Villa's resources than O'Neill. Unless he were to sign Heskey, in which case I take back all the nice things I said about him! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, I think the problem with the smaller team younger managers are the same that we have encountered with Martin. Yes, he's done well at a small team (Leicester), but can they then change it up to succeed at a big club. For evidence of how this can really go wrong, see "Ince, Paul". |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T I think john doyle's main reason for wanting Holloway is the brand of football his teams play, in contrast to O'Neill's. But I would share your concerns about how he would handle a much bigger budget. What I would hope is that he wouldn't be given such a big financial responsibility, and that an experienced operator would look after this side of things. Winning the league in Holland is not going to convince me that McClaren is a good manager. And although AZ might not be one of the traditional big boys, they have spent a fair amount of money in recent times, and Ajax, who finished second, are in pretty serious financial bother. So it's not like he's taken a minnow and turned them into a conqueror of giants. By all acounts he is a very good coach, and in a low pressure environment, perhaps what I perceive as a weakness of character isn't exposed. I think it would be different were he to come back to the Premeriship. Perhaps if he has a sustained period of success on the continent he might make a triumphal return at some point, but that's some way off at the moment. As for Mellberg, impossible to tell. It would be wonderful to think that one of the clubs great servants of recent times had the potential to be a great manager. Whether Mellberg does is something I don't know - although my feeling would be probably not. After all, it's not like he's had the opportunity to learn from great coaches! Gareth Southgate gave the impression that he'd be a more likely candidate, and yet I've been distinctly unimpressed with his managerial career thus far. And of course he rather blotted his copybook by going to Middlesboro - even if I can sympathise with him wanting to get as far away from John Gregory as possible! Otherwise, I'm really struggling to think of recent Villa players of note who might forge successful careers in management. |
john doyle
said:
|
... Matt T hollaway wes just for comment my own choice if i were Randy would be Gorden Cowans all day long just look at the kids and the way they play he would play the right way he knows what it takes he played abroard was a much better player than Mon for me. the best passer of the foot ball that villa have had in the last 30 years . i know people on here would slag him but he loves the club and there would not be fall outs with him like mon has with any one who dont look at him right . Sid would not be a dictator he talks to people and lisens to them . the other reason, and main one is the club to him like us all is in his blood he would be a great manager and would cost nothing |
frem
said:
 |
... we really only need four players this summer. i hope beye or young stay so we dont need to waste time getting a right back when we already have two good ones here. west ham want 20 mill for parker. utterrip of but it would not surprise me if mon spent 20 mill on him. witsel or flamini better options. younger, cheaper and better. then we need an attacking midfielder. ireland as part of the milner deal is vital. we strugled today in that department against an irish team. robbie keane would be very nice. mgeady would be nice as well. so ireland keane witsel/ flamini mgeady would be fine this summer. |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
 |
... we should get rid of oneill and bring in dwight yorke and stan collymore as assistant, what do u think simeon and matt t, your views please |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T I agree that there are no guarantees that success at a smaller club will translate into success at a bigger club. But at the same time, just because a manager hasn't had the opportunity to spend lots of money before, doesn't mean that they won't be able to spend it wisely. The best operator in the transfer market we've had in the last twenty years was Brin Little. He'd managed for less than one season in the top flight before he got the Villa job, yet he was given money to spend and, by and large, spent it very well. Even the mistakes he made (Curcic, Collymore) could be forgiven, because on the face if it they both looked like very good signings. I think you have to judge each manager individually, make a proper assessment of their talents and character, and then make a wise choice. As for O'Neill's success with smaller clubs, this is not in question. And neither is the manner in which he achieved it. None of his teams have played attractive football. Being a Leicester fan would have been exciting, because they were punching above their weight, and this fact would have glossed over the style of football. At Celtic, they were winning virtually every week, and although they wouldn't have been playing champagne football, there would have been no shortage of excitement. Even in the early months and years of his Villa reign, the feelgood factor surrounding the club would have enabled fans to turn a blind eye to our style of play. Although I confess that the football we played in the first half of O'Neill's reign seemed to be fairly decent. I certainly think we were a much better counter-attacking side than we are now. But maybe me saying so just proves my point about a feelgood factor blurring one's perception. |
john doyle
said:
|
... Greg de villan are you realy Mons brother or are you his wife or do you just run the Mon fan club or are you related to him in sum other way come on now let us all know your secret |
Andy D
said:
 |
... What is all this rubbish? We need to show we trust MON now or we as fans will push him away. Yes, we might believe Luke Young should be at rightback, but Martin always prefers a centre half there. How many pre-seasons have we had worries like we have now but every year we improve a little. Last season I had two trips to Wembley and I thank Martin for that. We all know the wage bill at Villa is too much and that cuts are desperately needed. You lets just really get behind Martin and the lads. This is going to be the year that players like Delfonso, Albrighton and Clarke become stars. See you all at Walsall Tuesday to let Martin really know we are behind him. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Greg Davillain 1887 Funnily enough, Dwight Yorke would be one of the better candidates for a managerial career, at least as far as ex-Villa players of recent vintage are concerned. After all, he played under Ferguson. And he recently said that he is interested in a career in management. But I don't think the Villa fans would accept him, and the jury is firmly out on whether he'd even be up to the task. Stan Collymore, whilst he says some ridiculous things, is a decent pundit, and there is no doubting his enthusiasm for football and his willingness to study his subject. I think he's a fairly intelligent guy, and I think his experience of personal problems could well be an asset if he ever chose to go down the management route. But if it was up to me, I don't think I'd be gambling on him at this point. Actually, the one ex-Villa player who I'd be looking to bring into the club now (and, depending on how things went, may even look to groom for the manager's role) is Mark Bosnich. Whenever I've heard him speak he's come across as an intelligent guy. Obviously he has a pretty broad perspective on life, and like Collymore, could be in a position to offer valuable advice to young players. He was an outstanding goalkeeper, and the best I ever saw play. At the very least, I think he would be a useful addition to our coaching staff. |
Simeon
said:
|
... frem Witsel or Flamini, being defenisve midfielders, would be useful. McGeady would, as far as I can tell, be a huge waste of money. Ireland is a very talented player, and the suggestion is that he wouldn't be willing to take a step down and come to Villa. If he were interested in moving to us, it would be a risk - although I'm coming round to the idea that taking him in part-exchange for Milner is actually less of a risk than giving our manager the hard cash to spend! As for Robbie Keane, too old, too expensive, and not good enough. |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
|
... ya maybe if we could bring in merson he could sort out the young lads if bosnich cant get them hooked on coke and if collytmore cant get them hooked on sex, merson could always brush up their gambling skills and boozing. Mon out now |
Genital Grinder
said:
|
... Aero, I suppose I was just taking notice when the ball was at his feet, I couldn't see most of the corners in the second half from where i was sitting, but as for taking anyone on, to be honest I haven't really see him do that since his first season with us. Greg Davillain1887 surely you're taking the p**s? |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Mat I think it's more a case of buying players with some past connection or last minute panic buys without considering what the teams needs the resorting to kick & rush as we have no idea what else to do . We played better football in the 3rd division. It has been shocking at home Selling to make money? We have not bought in quality players with a real sell on value. Petrov Sidwell Hesky Before you quote Milner we should have got him for £4m £25m is daylight robbery a good honest player as for Ashley what have we done to him Spurs could attract players with a manager that wanted to entertain, something we could not do, it looks like we have spent more than them & find it hard to give away most of our players Why do we have more deadwood now than when MoN arrived yet Dol had a 50p budget & a real by to sell policy We got to a semi-final & final could not trouble either team we just made up the numbers possible slightly shading the Gregory attempt. Definitely Lerner he is a clueless not even part time chairman letting O'Neill squander millions on players that do not even get a game Ellis worked every day of the week for Himself & the Club he could not compete in the current financial climate but at least was accountable & fans still could hold shares in the the club Learner is Raping us behind closed doors I sure Damo says he takes £ms in management fees Before even looking at managers we have to sort out a board, then understand what the club aims to with this once great club, we clearly cannot attract investors or players with the s**t we dish up Remember we did manage to bring in players like Savo Colymore JPA we have spent our money on bloody average centrehalfs |
Yadza
said:
 |
... Stop talking about different managers to replace oneill you donkeys, we all know he is the best man for the job (unless your pig stupid!) |
VillaNick
said:
|
... I think some of you who are wanting O'Neill out are mad. If it wasn't for him we probably would be like Newcastle or Bolton. "Bottom end no hopers." This is a great club but Man United we are not and we have to accept that. As for comments about the result in Ireland today make me chuckle. Young looking lethargic, for example. Good! I dont want him running around like its an FA cup match and getting injured. Practice pre-season games are what they are, Practice matches for fitness and maybe a few formation and partnership ideas. Thats it. |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
|
... genital grinder?? why would you think that?? Some more articulate people on here are calling for mons tenure to be brought to and end in replacement fot ian halloway or maybe frank rikard, are my suggestions any less ludicrous? |
FatKevs
said:
|
... If we look at spurs, It is the Board that try appoint a manager to deliver the type of football & players the fans enjoy. Our boardroom must be empty most of the season, definitely during the transfer window Rudderless for most of the year MoN has been a huge disappointment, the chairman must have no faith in him or idea what to do because we have looked at an open door to break into the top four but simply looked the other way. There is nothing wrong with losing but not trying to win is inexcusable |
Simeon
said:
|
... Greg Davillain 1887 Those are some fairly unorthodox coaching methods you're suggesting. I'm not sure I could condone them. But I definitely agree with you that a new manager would be in the best interests of the club. |
Simeon
said:
|
... VillaNick What has our manager done that makes you think that without him we'd be no-hopers? If you were saying that without the multi-millions that have been spent in the last four years we'd be down with the 'no-hopers' I might well agree with you. Aside from getting our players super-fit and running through walls, what has O'Neill actually done? |
Genital Grinder
said:
|
... Greg Davillain1887 I was just really referring to your proposal of Dwight Yorke and Stan Collymore!!  Didn't know if you were being serious or havin' a laugh. Come to think of it, I still don't! But for anyone wanting MON out, I can see where they're coming from sometimes, but it's not the right decision to make now, we have to see what he'll be able to do this season. Naming managers who you'd think would do a better job than MON is pointless, it's not guaranteed that any manager, no matter how big the name, would do a better job with this squad. Remember Juande Ramos at Spurs? |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
|
... ya g. grinder i was taking the piss to be honest, although in hindsight oneill has made mistakes, but if you look at the situations at the time, most seemed logical and rational decisions, maybe the man has been unlucky, i would like to see us cast out scouting network further afield and after a core 5 r 6 players, see the squad being used and a little more football being played, but he is a good manager and i think we are improving, and he is the best man for the job unless maybe mourniho packs it in at madrid or ferguson seeks a new challenge |
Simeon
said:
|
... Genital Grinder You have to be very thorough in your decision-making process, and when you decide on the right man, you have to equip him to succeed. Whether Ramos was right for Spurs or not is difficult to say. Was he given the opportunity to succeed? Did Spurs properly think through the implications of appointing Ramos? Of course there is a risk in appointing a new manager. The history of football is littered with the right men being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and of clubs not given due consideration to managerial appointments. But there is also a risk to keeping the current manager. Whatever we do or don't do, there is a risk. I agree that it would be utterly ridiculous for our manager to be sacked now. At the end of the season is the time to do it. Or prefferably at the end of last season in this particular case. Lerner, as things stand, is obviously happy with the manager, or at least is waiting to see what our manager can get out of the squad he has assembled. I'd prefer our owner to be a little more perceptive, or more decisive - or preferrably both. But that's just me. |
rocky5
said:
 |
...VillaNick said:if it wasn`t for him we could be in the champions league also,he has spent a hell of a lot,jesus is mon your dad or something  |
Genital Grinder
said:
|
... Simeon I agree there is a risk, whether we do or whether we don't get rid of MON, but I think for now, the lesser risk is to keep him on for this season, and see where we are next May. I think he deserves one more season to be honest, you might not be his biggest fan and I see that you asked "what exactly has he done?", it's a fair question, but for me, at least in the short-term, he has steadied a ship, that in my opinion hadn't been very steady in years, up and down, up and down but now calm water for a while. Imagine we ended up like Newcastle? And I mean this at a playing level, Randy has done good, but right now things don't seem too far off from the Doug days. But of course in saying all of this, if MON continues to make the same massive, obvious mistakes that everyone can see but him again this season, I will thank him for his services next summer and wait, with arms folded, for a replacement from the board. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Genital Grinder You are a more patient man than I, and they do say patience is a virtue. I suppose the only other thing I'd say in reply is that steadying the ship is the absolute bare minimum one could expect after spending £140m on new players in four years. I appreciate that we were in a right old mess when Lerner took over - a laughing stock even. And it is impossible to argue taht we aren't better off now than we were then. I guess I was just hoping for a bigger bang for the Villa buck, which I don't think is unreasonable. |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
|
... Summer 2006 Aston Villa Transfers In: Stilian Petrov (Celtic, undisclosed) January 2007 Aston Villa Transfers In: Shaun Maloney (Celtic, £1m), Phil Bardsley (Manchester United, loan), John Carew (Lyon, swap deal for Milan Baros), Ashley Young (Watford, £9.65m) Summer 2007 Aston Villa Transfers In: Nigel Reo-Coker (West Ham, £8.5m), Harry Forrester (Watford, undisclosed), Marlon Harewood (West Ham, undisclosed), Eric Lichaj (unattached, free), Scott Carson (Liverpool, loan), Zat Knight (Fulham, 3.5m), Moustapha Salifou (FC Wil, undisclosed), Curtis Davies (West Brom, loan till summer 2008, 8.5m after that) January 2008 Aston Villa Transfers In: Wayne Routeledge (£1.5m, Tottenham) Summer 2008 Aston Villa Transfers In: Curtis Davies (undisclosed, West Brom), Steve Sidwell (£5m, Chelsea), Brad Friedel (undisclosed, Blackburn), Nicky Shorey (£3m, Reading), Luke Young (£6m, Middlesbrough), Carlos Cuellar (£7.8m, Rangers), James Milner (£12.5m, Newcastle) January 2009 Aston Villa Transfers In: Emile Heskey (£3.5m, Wigan) Summer 2009 Aston Villa Transfers In: Courtney Cameron (undisclosed, Northampton), Samir Carruthers (free, Arsenal), Stuart Downing (£12m, Middlesbrough), Fabian Delph (undisclosed, Leeds United), Habib Beye (undisclosed, Newcastle United), Andy Marshall (free, Unattatched), Stephen Warnock (undisclosed, Blackburn Rovers), James Collins (£5m, West Ham United), Richard Dunne (£6m, Manchester City) that 93.45 million with the other transfers undisclosed outgoings: 29 recouped http://soccerlens.com/aston-villa-transfers/ i suppose it shows how much it takes to get where we are, and once we stop to spend we stop to progress |
Billy.Villa
said:
 |
... Simeon Quote...As a by the way, one manager who would be a clear step up from our prsent one, and who is currently being linked with Fulham, is Ottmar Hitzfeld. I don't know whether he'd be the right man for the job. I haven't spoken to him. But that this kind of manager is being linked with Fulham shows what is possible if we were to aggressively pursue a new manager. Martin Jol was very eager to join Fulham, and whilst I'm not a huge fan of his, there's no doubt that he has a pretty big reputation. If a guy like that is so interested in going to a club like Fulham, it stands to reason that manager's with even bigger reputations (and more importantly greater talent) would be extremely interested in a club like us. Yep Taglor and Simeon to interview our next manager......oh god i'd love that.....then we can really get pay back when it goes wrong..... |
Billy.Villa
said:
|
... Actually Taglor thinks he can do better than MoN....Simeon wants to interview the next manager...... Maybe we should set up a meeting..... Two footballing geniuses will get us out of the whole that MoN (football professional) has gotten us into..... |
Andy
said:
|
... Theres obviously two camps. One that think MON won't take us anywhere except also-rans ie..fighting for 5/6th place at best and then theres those that have eithe think MON can take us into top 4 or maybe even win the league or they are happy with 5/6th place at best. I do feel that a lot of those that have faith in MON are willing to actually accept and be happy with 5/6th place at best. The only thing is to those that feel like this, what is the point in only accepting this. I could understand if we were say a team like Blackpool, Sheffield Utd etc, however we are in the Premier League, competing for big things and we are a big club with a great following. I know we don't automatically deserve to be Champions League stuff because of our history, but with some real vision this club is easily capable of being lie a Chelsea or Man Utd. It is not actually that hard to achieve. Well, not as hard as some make out it is. |
VillaNick
said:
|
...what has O'Neill actually done Ummm, established the club challenging for Euro places season in, season out. When was the last time that happened? The players at Villa now are of far better quality than we have had ever, perhaps with the exception of Big Rons early 90's side. It can't happen overnight. It took Fergie from 1986 - 1992 to get man U on the right track to continued success. Chopping and changing is what got us in trouble in the first place over the last 20 years or so. |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Dwight Blody Dwight cannot even look after his own kid. Collymoore at least talks well sometimes but if it had to be a player Sid Cowans & the heart would say Dennis Mortimer |
AussieVillan
said:
|
... In : Swap davies plus 2mil for keane , flamini 5mil , sessegnon 8mil , witsel 10 mil , onuhua or Richards ! Out : milner for 20 mil plus onuhua or Richards , sidwell 2 mil , heskey 2 mil , shorey or bêye 2mil ! So that's25 mil spent and 26 in profit of 1 mil with 5 players in and 5 out , basically swapping davies , milner , heskey , sidwell and shorey for Keane , sessegnon , witsel , flamini and onuhua ! I think if we don't hurry up and actually sell milner we will go backwards ! |
FatKevs
said:
|
... To brush off our current plight under a clueless Yankee is daft. we were broke yes, DE could do no more, but we were solvent with assets. We still have assets but are mortgaged up to the hilt with huge debts & liabilities & have little chance of silverware let alone CL football |
FatKevs
said:
|
... I would not be surprised if the Yankees PR Puppet the general was the next manager |
FatKevs
said:
|
... bossey would be the fist manager to wear a dress & along with dwight at least legs 11 would do well |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Mon bemoans man city "But if you are told here’s £400m, buy who you can, then you will do a lot of damage.’ Yes but you've had £ms pissed them up the wall on sidwell heskey etc whilst spuds bought in quality we lap up a couple of Donkeys on 100000 a week |
FatKevs
said:
|
... ? Sidwell Heskey Transfer fee &100k a week. Joe Cole Free 90k a week No Imagination down Villa Park |
mickey86
said:
|
... if i had to chose out of the 3 managers mentioned, id go for hughes, but wouldnt be happy with him being our manager. if mon did leave, id like sven to take over, if not him then give the job to cowans. but i dont want mon to leave. |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Aussie (73) I would be safe to put my wedding tackle between 2 fighting pitbulls if your prediction comes off |
Andy
said:
|
... Slight problem with that thinking though FatKevs...Other Villa players would also be wanting £90k a week, so it's a bit of a pandoras box really. |
mickey86
said:
|
... aussie villain - if we swap davies for keane, i think it should either be us getting the £2million or just a straight swap. most likely a straight swap. i really want us to sign flamini, keane and ireland, dont really care about anyone else. |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Andy forget the money though, Mon could not attract a football player only workhorses |
Andy
said:
|
... I don't particularly have agreat problem with MON's signings in general. There are some bad ones obviously, such as the ones we all know about. However, where I see the real crimes have been committed by MON is his poor management of some of the players, such as his fallouts, now his strange way of going public with the Milner thing (this alone looks like someone that's lost the plot or at the very least lost some professionalism). His other problems are his stubborness to plat his pets, not use a squad properly and his general tactics of hoof and hope football. I do however have a feeling, with the players MON looks like he's after, that we will see more on the floor football this season. We keep saying give MON another season to show us he's learnt things about the Premiership, so I'm not going to be any more original in saying we may aswell give him this season (unless it turns out he lied about this Milner thing, then he has to walk away in shame anyway) to show us he is changing his ways tactically etc. Wow...that was a surprisingly positive MON post for me |
Andy
said:
|
... mickey...it's gonna be McGeady in all probability because he's the one that MON has been bigging up. |
VillaDude
said:
|
... Anyone eles think Lichaj is gonna be a our main Right Back this season with Beye being on the bench. Lichaj has started our last 2 games signed a new contract last week... |
Andy
said:
|
... Albrighton was a star at the Peace Cup last year, but he did not get much of a chance, so I don't think Lichaj will see much action. Especially seeing as we have a RB in Carlos there already |
Andy
said:
|
... RIP Hurricane Is it just me, or does Steve Davis look much better these days than ten years ago...?! |
FatKevs
said:
|
... I would like to see Albrighton but he will most likely be the fall guy for Downing (mrs doubtfire) |
Simeon
said:
|
... Villa Nick We were at the same level now as we were under Brian Little and John Gregory. Except that under Brian Little we won the league cup (when it still meant something) and finished fourth. And even John Gregory managed to get us to an FA Cup final. So maybe I'm doing them an injustice by comparing them to O'Neill. Especially when, at least under Brian Little, we had better players and played much better football. You're justifying keeping faith with O'Neill because Ferguson took his sweet time doing something at Man Ure. But what about all the other managers who have gone into clubs and in a very short space of time (or within four years) have turned things around? I agree that stability is a good thing, and that unless you're Real Madrid it is necessary for success. But sticking with the wrong man is not a virtue. If it were, then taking that thinking to its logical conclusion, you could appoint a hamster as manager. As long as you stuck with him for long enough you'd be successful. The truth is that had Bolton or Blackburn or West Ham or Fulham spent the amount of money we have in the last four years, they'd be where we are now. The Premier League is full of medicore teams, and anyone who spent the kind of money we spent would immediately leapfrog them. In four years, we have finished above Everton just once, despite them being massively underfunded in comparison to us. Of course, they are managed very well, and have had a high degree of stability (and no, I don't believe that Everton's backing of Moyes justifies backing O'Neill), so in one sense that's no disgrace. But it does show that Martin isn't as magic as some might have us believe. The team is better than it was four years ago. We are now unquestionably a top half side at the moment (top six is definitely pushing it for next season I think). We've got to one cup final (and a tin-pot final it was too). We've finished sixth. But is that enough after £140m? I guess this is where we differ. |
Matt T
said:
|
... I wouldn't want Yorke or Collymore at the club in any sense of the word. I'd have Cowans at the club all day long as manager - the guy is the essence of Aston Villa. However, while MON is our manager, I will continue to support him as part of my support of the club, irrespective of whether I think another guy can do the job better. I do understand that, at the end of the day, I am not a Premiership manager, and therefore can't judge if MON has done well or badly given his money he has spent. All I do know is that we have made several high wage mistakes that have made the club lose money a lot more than just spending money on fees. Sidwell would be a prime example. Maybe we don't need to get rid of MON, but we definitely need someone else at the club who knows more about football than just leaving it to one man. This person could focus on researching players and their place in the squad. However, the sad fact of this is that MON would not stand this which, I guess, actually resolves the situation anyway. I think we should give MON this season to prove what he has got in the bag to develop Villa, and in the meantime make sure we get behind the team and cut out all the booing that goes on. I have to say when I see our own fans booing our team disgusting. Yes, we can vocalise our opinions, but the team are a bunch of humans who won't perform if we are constantly critical of them. We need to get behind the club and see what happens. If MON messes up this season, he will have done it himself without having to complain about the boo boys. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Fatkevs ? Sidwell Heskey Transfer fee &100k a week. Joe Cole Free 90k a week Aston Villa are nowhere near as big a club as Liverpool. Yes, we finished above them last season, but c'mon - we were never in the running to get Cole, and never would have got him anyway. He would have gone to Spurs, Man United, or Liverpool before he would have even looked at us. On top of that MON isn't going to break the wage structure to get Cole, irrespective of the fact that I don't even think we have £90k spare in the wage budget to be buying Cole - not with many players on the bench who are earning a probably combined £250k a week who aren't even playing. |
Matt T
said:
|
... I also honestly think that the boo boy changeable culture that we have at our ground is some of the reason why people like Sidwell have totally lost confidence in their game. The guy was a relatively good player (although I admit he is really overpaid), but I think he's become a shadow of his former self. Is it just me or do we seem to be the only club who is constantly at our manager and players for being terrible? Maybe it's just because Villa are my team and thus I see more from our fans than anyone else, but it does seem that way, and I don't think it helps our plight very much - we will never progress if the fans don't support the team. Oh and by support the team, I don't mean blind faith and supporting the manager irrespective of his actions, but I do mean stopping the booing and criticism of the team while we are actually playing. |
bobby b
said:
 |
... HAS ANYONE SEEN THE SUNDAY PAPERS? MON READY TO QUIT!!! ITS LERNER THAT NEEDS TO GO NOT MON!!! f**k OFF YOU f**kING YANK!! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Re: wages also... I think the reason we aren't giving O'Neill money isn't because of transfer money being unavailable, it's that we have an out of control wage bill. Think of it this way - If we have £20m to spend, just the surplus of players who aren't even playing will be sucking over £1m a month out of the funds. On that basis we need to get rid of players who O'Neill doesn't want to use (Luke Young, Shorey, Sidwell etc) irrespective of the price. This is because every month we keep these players, we are losing money that could be going into a transfer budget. |
Bobby B
said:
 |
... Lads sorry to say, we are GAME OVER this coming season. We need lerner out! we keep speculating how much mon has? the fact is he aint got nothing!!!! i am not renewing my season ticket this season because i can see us taking several steps back. |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kanWPWVT2DA Theres the match highlights for anyone interested... UTV! |
dingbat
said:
 |
... You have got to be joking! Yorke and Collymore! Throw McInally in as well. You know the one we all sing about.The one who said he would go on strike unless he was allowed to join Bayern Munich!!!! |
dingbat
said:
|
... You should check our history. Villa always get used! Steve McMahon Steve Hodge Dwight Yorke Mark Bosnich Gareth Barry Need I go on? |
Matt T
said:
|
... Bobby B, Lerner out? On what basis? That he personally wasted the transfer fees of Sidwell, Shorey, NRC, Luke Young, Beye, Davies et al? Of all those players, will any of them play next season? Just those players alone cost over £35m and are picking up over £150k between them, so cost us £7.5m a year. How many players can we buy who are going to not play for whatever reason? How many players are going to have fallouts and thus just sit and take money from the club's coffers? |
Matt T
said:
|
... Dingbat, Every club gets used. Fabregas wants to go to Barcelona, Ronaldo forced a move to Real Madrid. We are exactly the same but on a smaller scale, and if we buy players from clubs that are smaller than us, people could well say we use those clubs the same ways that other clubs use us. Bosnich and Yorke went to bigger clubs, Barry and Milner are just suckers for the money at City. |
FatKevs
said:
|
... Matt the reason we have an out of control wage bill is mon buys s**t like emily (not even on a free) & still pays outrageous wages If we had just bought 1 or 2 quality player instead of injured players like downing we would not have so many clamouring for the door |
dingbat
said:
|
... Matt.T Define "bigger clubs". Same old story mate. If the likes of them two Southgate and Co hung around we might have been that big club!! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Bobby B, The MON story is about MON having players sold behind his back. We have no idea if that is even the case - he has clearly made it clear that he knows that Milner is leaving, so that is hardly behind his back. As for the club wanting to shift Sidwell et al - I fully support the board on this based on the (lack of) use of these players. |
AussieLion
said:
|
... MON will apparently quit if Young is sold behind his back. Maybe this is true and that is why MON hasnt bought anyone yet? If this happens it cold really damage our season, getting a new manager in 2 weeks before the season starts would be disastorous, or we could get someone really good in. Who knows? |
Geoff
said:
 |
... Some of you guys act like the manager/owner have no plan at all. Get real! Randy Lerner is a businessman, and all businessmen worth their salt have long term and short term and moderate term business plans. All of our governments are run as a business plan too. So of course a sports team is run like a business, because it IS a business. Everything is business and commerce. Now, what Lerner's plans are may not be what we the fans want to see, maybe thats why we have and will not ever see it. You will just see the side effects and the ramifications. If he goes over the Manager's head to sell Ashley Young, however, while he may get 30M for him, which is good business, it would sink this coming season before it begins. In my opinion, Milner is a very good player, but is VERY overrated and in reality is worth no more than 15M, but in today's game those types of guys always are overhyped and sell high. Milner could be EASILY replaced and upgraded on. Ashley Young is different. He really cannot be replaced so easily, and it would take several transfer windows before you would land that type of talent again. He should not be for sale. Or else do what other teams do and put an outrageous price tag on him, like 50m - something that would break the British transfer record even. If you did that and someone still bought him, fine, go hire a new manager and now that manager has money to build with. But I think that this manager is capable of getting them to the top 4, and that they can and probably will make the top 4 by having sold Milner and using the money to rebuild. However, without Ashley Young as well, they really do not have a chance. |
HK Charlie
said:
 |
... I agree with Geoff that Milner is okay but overrated so 24 - 25 million would be excellent business. However, we can't let webcam go - what's the point of trying to build a team only to sell the best buys. Buying options - Ireland good choice McGeady - a bit of a risk but looks good on You Tube Keane - two/three years too late? |
Chiefy
said:
|
... The press are predictable, within days of Young saying he wants to stay according to the press welly face wants him, no quotes nothing. Couple of days later MON will leave if Young is sold, again no quotes. What a load of rubbish, i am sure would leave but before the window we had been told to expect a big gun to go, Milner, so now the only way a first teamer will go is if the player wants to. As ususl we become the media whipping boys |
DanWilson82
said:
 |
... Cheers for putting the highlights up Aero, after watching it's clear as day that the one thing that lost us the match was the fact that half the team are fat... as fat as fat men in fat peoples clothes. When they put the summer holiday Ginsters stash down and get back into the swing of things we won't have a problem, still that doesn't make the fact that I had 20 quid down on a sure fire Villa win yesterday any easier to take. I support you for 20 years through thick and thin and you can even beat Bohs to win me a lousy 7 quid you muppets!! By the way, have been noticing that our GK Kit is proving pretty popular, have seen atleast 3 different teams deploy it in pre season friendlies so far, things aren't so bad afterall. |
VillaNick
said:
|
... Simeon, Will agree to disagree, I just think it was alot easier 10 - 15 years ago to finish 4th. The league seems to imploded with big money being flashed about. It so different now, spending 120M now is like spending 25M when Brian Little was in charge. |
VillaNick
said:
|
...You should check our history. Villa always get used! Spon on. McMahon and Steve Hodge could have been the best midfield duo in the Division one in the mid-80s. Ellis didn't spend any money to get us a couple more stars needed to push on. Letting them go actually got us relegated! Possibly the same with Yorke and Bozzie. Just when we think we are getting somewhere, someone pulls the rug from under us. Is history repeating itself? |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Bidding war welly face and wastelands for milner love it, how hi can you go how hi can you go, lets con then proper |
Dicky H
said:
 |
... Sometimes we may just need to gamble. Due to us not having the finances to compete with the top 4, MON usually has gone for the 'safe option'. Hence Milner - a decent premiership player with sound temperament who guarantees more than 100%. Perhaps its now time to take the gamble. Relacing Milner in the centre of the park with someone like Bentley is admittedly a risk but could just be that masterstroke. He doesn't give the guarantees of a Milner but is essentially a more talented player if we can get the best out of him. Remember how good Merson was for us. I would personally go for Annan (one of the best holding midfield players at the World Cup and 'gettable'- the new Essien) and Gjan, who looked well suited to playing up front on his own and looks as if he can score goals too. Petrov/Reo Annan Young Bentley/Keane Downing Gabby/Gjan Looks much stronger both defensively and in an attacking sense; and we'll probably still have money left over from the Milner/Sidwell/Davies sales to sort out the right back. |
Dicky H
said:
|
... Spurs cynics believe interest from Arry in Milner is a plot between MON and Rednapp to push up the Milner price to enable us to meet Spuds valuation of Keane and Bentley! - hope not Jenas |
MoodyVilla
said:
|
...Lerner out? On what basis? That he personally wasted the transfer fees of Sidwell, Shorey, NRC, Luke Young, Beye, Davies et al? Of all those players, will any of them play next season? Well they did last year, so probably. Davies was first choice before he got injured and may well play his way into the team during preseason. Nrc will play while Delph is injured if Milner goes. L. Young gets games when he's playing well and may well get more of a chance. Sidwell should leave and so should Shorey, but if Sidwell stays he'll still get game time. Signing Davies and Nrc was not a mistake, they are decent players who haven't realised their potential with Villa yet, but both have something to offer. |
Gardner
said:
 |
...Ummm, established the club challenging for Euro places season in, season out. When was the last time that happened? The players at Villa now are of far better quality than we have had ever, perhaps with the exception of Big Rons early 90's side. I imp-lore everybody to read this. Especially the last two paragraphs, they're more fact than they are opinion! Bloody sensible stuff on here. For once. Jesus, we must be the only fans in the country that can get 6th in the league and two trips to Wembley and then look forward to next season with all the optimism of of a snowman entering the gates of hell. You lot would be useless trying to escape from Shawshank with. |
KrisAVFC
said:
|
...
Thats not Learners fault, he's just the sorry arse who stumps up the cash!!! |
MoodyVilla
said:
|
...The team is better than it was four years ago. We are now unquestionably a top half side at the moment (top six is definitely pushing it for next season I think). We've got to one cup final (and a tin-pot final it was too). We've finished sixth. But is that enough after £140m? I guess this is where we differ. Simeon, sure we had a good team under Little and we did well. He couldn't keep it going though could he? we still had our players picked off by bigger clubs and we never had the youth team or the training facilities we have now. Gregory did not get us to where O'Neill has, he signed journeyman and veterans who were a drain on the wage bill and had no longevity. It was a quick fix that didn't last and by the time Taylor and O'Leary came in the money was gone. We have a strong team and a fairly deep squad at the moment. We need reinforcements up top, a striker and someone creative but we aren't far away. Just a couple of options off the bench and a few more goals as defensively we are pretty sound with loads of choice. Look at what the team and club is worth compared to before Mon. Which of our players were being picked up by the richest club in the world for a record fee then? None. Because we were very poor. At least now we have the opportunity through making some shrewd signings and reinvesting the resultant transfer fees to continue to grow the club, the same way Everton did with the Rooney money. We are light years away as a club from where we were under the last three managers. Yes the chairman has spent money, but the £140m is a long term investement in saleable assets like Milner and Young. We have players in the team capable of really improving. Downing, Delph, Davies, Delfouneso and Agbonlahor are all capable of having a stormer like Milner did last season and being the next big sale and allowing us to buy more potential. The kids are hitting 20 now, I think we may be seeing a few of the younger players a little more often this year, not loads, but a few, especially in europe. |
dingbat
said:
|
... The problem with the likes of Sidwell and Beye is we are paying them top dollar. They ain't gonna get the same money anywhere else! Playing or not, it doesn't bother them as long as the bank balance is being topped up! |
Villa Deltic
said:
|
... The next few days will be the moment of truth, if MON walks then so be it ! He's spent millions on players who he has never played, seems clueless in the transfer market and really does not get the picture. We now see him saying that he fears we will never have the resources to win the league so thats a sure sign that Lerner has had thoughts about his ability to spend the money on the right players. I'd like to see Paul Merson and Gordon Cowans given the opportunity to Manage our Club. Im afraid without change Aston Villa will be going backwards this season. If we cannot beat these minow teams then we truly are on a downwards side back into mediocraty. Its time for change and we need to bring in somebody how has fresh ideas and enthusiasm for Aston Villa. |
VillaNick
said:
|
... NRC, Sidwell, Maloney, Shorey & Davies etc. were the best MON could buy at the time. Around the same time there was calls for the Manager to buy players like Snjider, Van der vaart etc, totally unrealistic. They would not come to villa then or now! Small steps and all that, surley everyone can see its not O'Neill's fault we are not playing in the Champions League yet cant you? |
MoodyVilla
said:
|
... Dicky H why would we sign Asamoah Gyan for a massive world cup inspired fee when he is a lone striker an we clearly play 4-4-2? Also why sign Annan, a holding midfielder player, when we need an up and down box to box mid to replace Milner. These are not the players we should be signing and Keane is not a CM |
Andy
said:
|
... Well just bugger off then MON if you want out of Aston Villa. You are a judas...don't bother coming back. You could have been a hero for us, but now you have disgraced yourself. Thats for those that have jumped on Milners back...see what I did with that |
TheDiamond
said:
 |
... lol Andy. It's amazing how much muddled thinking the media has created among villa fans. |
Andy
said:
|
... Dan said... after watching it's clear as day that the one thing that lost us the match was the fact that half the team are fat... as fat as fat men in fat peoples clothes lol Dan...I was thinking the same thing, but I was watching some of the highlights in widescreen so put it down to that |
Simeon
said:
|
... Moodyvilla We didn't have the infratructure at Villa under Brian Little that we have now, but that wasn't Little's fault. That the infrastructure was inferior actually makes what Little achieved more impressive. What you say about John Gregory is completely true. I think he was a rubbish manager. But what he did is very similar to what O'Neill has done, but just on a smaller scale. O'Neill has packed out the squad with journeymen, just as Gregory did. There have been some good signings, just as there were under Gregory, but for the most part the players that have been bought are a drain on the club's financial resources. If a new manager took over now, they too would find that all them oney had gone. You say we are not far away, but just how much money do you think it's going to take for us to get close to Spurs? How much money is it going to take for us to keep up with Liverpool? Where are we going to get these players from? The team we have at the moment is, by Premiership standards, decent. But As things stand, with no money to spend, we're looking at finishing 8th - or 7th if we can finish above Everton, which is a big if as far as I can see. You say our squad is deep, but our manager either won't use it on principle (which is what I believe is the truth), or, if you trust what he says, doesn't use it because the players aren't good enough. Despite them all being his signings. Either way, our deep squad is a liability rather than an asset. The club is obviously worth more than it was before Lerner arrived. £140m invested in the playing staff alone will tend to raise the value of the club. But I bet you any money you like that the club is not worth the £200m you'd think it might be worth, having been bought for £60m. We do have an opportunity to grow the club. That opportunity is always there, regardless. That we have such a good academy system reinforces the point. But if Milner is sold (and there's no guarantee of that, by the way), then the money will have to be spent shrewdly just to stand still. I don't believe we have a manager who is likely to do that, given that most of his signings have not been shrewd. You say the £140m investment is in saleable assets like Milner and Young. They cost just over £20m between them. What about the other £120m? Was that spent on saleable assets? It wasn't. If it was, you'd have mentioned more players. Delph is one who might rise in value. I hope he does, because it will at least mean he's fully recovered from his serious injury. But even if he does make a full recovery, there is no guarantee that he will rise in value. Which is probably why you didn't mention him. The truth is that even if we sold Milner and Young for £60m, making a profit of £40m, that profit wouldn't cover the money that has been wasted on players who we haven't got value for money from, and who have little or no resale value. We certainly do have some promising young talent. But I doubt whether they're going to get much of a look in. Where is Delfouneso going to play? He will be behind Carew, Gabby and Heskey in the pecking order, and behind anyone else we might sign - although t here is no guarantee that a new striker will be coming into the club. Are Albrighton and Clark going to get games? Is Lichaj going to play? I don't believe they will feature to any significant degree in the Premiership, and for them to get any worthwhile playing time we are going to need deep cup runs. That might happen, but it might not, and if it's true that we're going to play very youthful teams in the Europa League and the league cup, then we should be prepared for early exits in both competitions. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Cont. As for the likes of Davies and Downing having stormers and being the next big sale, with respect I believe you are dreaming. Downing will have a better season than last (although it won't be much better if he doesn't play on the left), but even if he is much improved, he's still not going to be a £12m player. He wasn't worth £12m on the evidence of the form he showed at Middlesboro, and at 26 I don't see him getting much better than that anyway. He was a waste of money and a terrible signing. Not his fault of course, but the guy who signed him. Davies is not going to play for Villa. We want to sell him because we don't want to have to increase his wages substantially as a result of him making a couple more first-team appearances. I think he has the potential to play for England, but he won't realise that potential at Villa. The best we can realistically hope for is that someone pays £4m for him - which would mean a loss of £6m. Gabby will, I expect, improve again this season, and I agree with you that he may well be the next big sale, because he's not far off being too good for a team that is struggling to achieve European football already. I expect him to be brought into the England squad - better late than never - and I expect him to score more goals this season, though not as many as he would score if he was afforded a rest from time to time in order to maintain his sharpness. |
churchill
said:
|
...I imp-lore everybody to read this. Especially the last two paragraphs, they're more fact than they are opinion! Bloody sensible stuff on here. For once. Gardner, I applaud your sentiments. However, I would ask you: a) Not to blaspheme, and b) Not end a sentence with a preposition |
dick511
said:
 |
... Getting really disheartend now, In summary of the papers today Young is going to spurs, Milner has his pick of spurs and citeh and when Young goes O'neill is walking too! Do they really hate us that much that all they can do is pick us apart every week? Starting to wonder if there's any point us competing at all, may as well give the whole team away!! FFS!  |
churchill
said:
|
... Everyone's got their knickers in a twist about the wage bill, particularly that part of it sitting on the bench. Premier League clubs all have a starting eleven and a bench full of subs. The subs draw big wages at all these clubs (if they're any good) and almost all, if not all, have bigger squads than Villa for which O'Neill has been criticised. Gentlemen, you can't have it both ways. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Just a comment on the stories that O'Neill will quit if Young is sold behind his back. This is a complete load of nonsense because there is not even the slightest chance that Lerner would do something without O'Neill's knowledge. Anyone who believes the opposite isn't thinking straight. I think Ashley Young could well sign for someone else. I'd be surprised if he didn't want to leave, because I think he is a Champions League quality player, and we are not a Champions League quality club, neither at this moment in time or in the forseeable future. If he signs a new contract, unless it includes a buy-out clause, I think it's a clear indication that he's happy for his career to bob along at its current level, which cannot possibly be good news for Villa. Having ambitious players who want to better themselves is vital for any club that wants to be successful. Milner is evidently one such player. That we can't hold on to him, that we can't offer him a successful future, that we can't compete with the wages on offer elsewhere, is hardly his fault. He's played to the best of his ability this past season because he has hunger and desire, and as a consequence the club is in a position where we can make a massive profit on him. In my view he has done the club a great service. Coming back to the manager, if he were to quit because both Milner and Young were sold, then firstly I'd be delighted he was gone. But secondly, I would be disgusted with him for throwing his toys out of the pram and leaving us managerless in the lst week of July. I'd be disgusted that he hadn't anticipated that Milner and Young leaving was a real possibility given that we are not competing with the top clubs. And I would be a little surprised that he didn't have the stomach for the fight. But I don't think he will quit if Young is sold. I think this news story is unfounded garbage. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Churchill Other Premiership clubs for the most part use their bench players, particularly if they are on big wages. In the instances where they are not, they are making a mistake, or have at least made a mistake in the past in signing a particular player. But I can't think of one club that has systematically signed squad players and then simply not used them, as is the case with us. The smaller Premiership clubs tend to have smaller squads, but their squad players will be on smaller wages, whether that is because they are stricly backup, or because they are youngsters 'making up the numbers'. But even if this weren't true, and it's the case that a number of other Premiership clubs are wasting huge sums of money on wages for players who contribute nothing, it doesn't excuse us for making the same mistake. The wage bill is the big issue at the moment, so fans are right to concentrate on it, and explore the reasons for it being such an issue. General Krulak himself talked about the wage bill in his recent communique, saying that the sell to buy policy isn't so much about generating capital for transfers as getting the wage bill under control. He also said that it was incumbent on the management of the club to examine the wage bill and resolve the issue of players drawing a wage who weren't making much of a contribution. Not to do so would be negligent. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Andy My marathon post was directly addressing the points MoodyVilla made in Comment 222. I suppose it is tehrefore primarily for his benefit, and so his job to wade through it! But in essence, all I'm doing is arguing against what he said, so if you read his original post, you'll probably have anticiapted most of what I was going to say anyway! |
mon 4-5-1
said:
 |
... Reading Sunday papers this morning, and the O’Neil quite rumour, here we go again. Has he not made that threat previously, why does he not do us a favour and walk. We were all mocking Rafa and Liverpool, and the goings on there, manger and board at logger heads, well guess what, the circus has come to Villa Park, and at least they have now made a shrewd appointment in Hodgson, and will be on a road to recovery. When a manager starts to publicly confront the board, then his days are numbered. Reasons for the public confrontations – . O’Neil wants to hide his own inadequacies, money wasted in the last 4 years, and now the well has dried up . Communication breakdown between O’Neil and the board . O’Neil playing a game, and trying to get larger transfer budget that he can further squander . O’Neil wants out We should have let O’Neil walk in the summer. Roy was on the radar then and available, and at the moment we are waiting for things to fall apart, which will most likely happen around December. As far as it goes for the wage bill, the last i read currently our wage bill is around 70 million mark, with a turnover of 84 million, so unless we want to end up like Leeds United it is something that cannot be ignored. |
Nath888
said:
 |
... God this blog is depressing! Why the f@£& are you getting on oneils back because he's said he would leave if we sold young?! Would you be happier if he just rolled over and let all our best players go! I'm ashamed of some fellow villa fans at times. |
Simeon
said:
|
... mon 4-5-1 As much as I would love to believe the O'Neill quit rumours, isn't it clear that it's a load of old balls? I might give the story more credence if O'Neill was threatening to quit if someone made an offer for Young and Young wanted to leave. But this suggestion that Lerner would sell behind O'Neill's back makes no sense whatsoever, and doesn't fit with everything we know about how the club is run. |
bobvillian
said:
|
... i said from day 1 that MON was overated and nothing has changed my mind since.Look at the signing the likes of spurs have made;defoe-top goalscorer;modric;-midfielder with flair;krankar-midfielder with flair;crouch;-villa cast of but scores goals;bentley-midfielder with flair; Did you notice the amount of flair to call on.look at vills midfield and attack no comparasion.MON has been at villa 4years and these positions have still not been addressed.along with no full-back partnership.The man is simpley not cut out for premership;45mill wasted on very average players who he cant get rid of due to massive wages.do the right and resign and go back to celtic where you belong |
taglor
said:
|
... If mon left today what would he be remembered for? He would just become another average manager, 4 years is a pretty good stint in today's footballing world and I really can't see that he will win anything after 5 years. So many bought into the 5yr crap desperate to have something to cling onto, even after it was dismissed by mon himself people still believed it. That just says to me that people think that by willing it to happen we will do well but it is action that speaks volumes. What action has been taken so far after a failed season? We know he doesn't take the uefa seriously so that doesn't count, we have signed nobody and again I feel even more distanced from th club with their silence. Without us they don't exist and they forget that. |
mon 4-5-1
said:
|
... Simeon O’Neil quitting we can only hope hey, but as O’Neil has threatened to walk out previously, when things looked a lot brighter it is not something I would totally dismiss. We are a few weeks away for the start of the new season, we have one of our key players in the squad who a categorically stated he wants to leave and will not even extend his current contract, according to the manager, but the player has now come out and said he said no such thing. Things do not look rosy, and by all accounts player’s not coming in until Milner deal has gone through. It looks like we cannot get rid of the so called dead wood O’Neil has bought, thus were dependent on the Milner deal. To rub salt into the wound, another rumour that Spurs may be in the picture to snap up Milner. Was this not the same team we were are the same level par last season, and the season before actually in front of in the pecking order, and the O’Neil brigrade still think were making progress, when in all reality we are actually going backwards. |
mon 4-5-1
said:
|
...Nath888 said: Nath888 we are in this position due to the mis-use of the squad a deprciation in our squad value from what O'Neil paid, with a ever increasing wage bill, and still no champions league football. So this situation is purely down to him and no one else. |
Simeon
said:
|
... mon 4-5-1 Can't disagree with any of your analysis. I remember when O'Neill raised questions about his future a few months back, and that whole episode was shameful. I was astonished that more people didn't pick up on what our manager was actually doing, which was talking himself up at the expense of the club. But, for all his faults, I don't believe that our manager is the kind of man who would quit three weeks before the start of the season. I'm perfectly willing to accept that all is not rosy in the garden, but I think that had O'Neill intended to leave, he would have done so at the beginning of the summer. I refuse to believe that he had no idea that our top players would be targets for bigger clubs, and so the Milner business, and potentially the same thing with Young, should have no bearing on his immediate future at the club. |
bobvillian
said:
|
... simeon; hear hear;the man is a compleat idiot.I cant believe the dross he has brought in like heskey;harewood;sidwell;beye;sutton;petrov;knight;the list goes on and on.could you see the likes of redknapp even looking at these.he keeps harping on about a.young how good he is;what about albrighten who puts more crossers in box than young and downing put together.trust me this kid will piss of to pastures new and good luck to the kid |
Simeon
said:
|
... bobvillian Interesting that you mention Celtic. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ended back there. I'd be surprised if Neil Lennon made a success of things up there immediately, and I reckon he'd be perfectly happy to let O'Neill take the reigns and become his assistant. As for Spurs, what they have managed to do is an indictment on our manager. They have shown that is possible to get into the top four without spending absolute fortunes. Of course they have spent big money (net), but no more than we have (and less if you're looking at just the past four years). |
Simeon
said:
|
... bobvillian I think the sad thing is that Albrighton is not the only youngster who looks like he will have to leave to further his career. My big worry, as I've said many times before, is that Delfouneso will become a star somewhere else. I'm already angry that he hasn't been given more first-team opportunities - not only to improve the team as a whole, but also so he can develop as an individual. I will be disgusted if he ends up leaving at the end of this season because, like Cahill before him, he sees no prospect of first-team football, and that, I believe, is a more than a possibility. |
VillaNick
said:
|
...If mon left today what would he be remembered for? Putting Aston Viila back on the map, finishing 6th(x3)in the best Football league in the world. If he can manage to persuade 2 or maybe even 3 quality additions to the squad, when Milner has gone, we could be even stronger and keep pace with Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Arsenal. |
TheDiamond
said:
|
... I hate to point out the obvious once again but O'Neill said nothing of the sort. A reporter spoke to "someone" at the club - not O'Neill - who gave an opinion about about what O'Neill might do if the mythical scenario of Ashley Young being sold happened. Media generated hysteria wins once again. |
pongo
said:
|
... Different day, same anti Mon drivell. You won't be happy until he's been driven out, then what? Why don't some of you "experts" put your name in the hat, you obviously think you're first class managers. It's pathetic, you're not fans, just gobsh*tes and barrack room lawyers. |
Chiefy
said:
|
... The diamond- you have pointed out simple common sense Although if lerner thought mon couldn't do it now would be ideal to give mon the push it will take. Young sold, milner sold the rest of the squad clean slate and a 50million warchest for the knew manager whoever it was? Just a thought |
Simeon
said:
|
... Chiefy Although the idea of cashing in on Milner and Young and starting again with a new manager is an appealing one (with the added benefit of players who are currently out of favour and are next to worthless in the transfer market becoming important members of the first team again), I can't believe that Lerner would be so stupid as to leave it until this late in the day to force O'Neill out - particularly when he could quite easily have decided not to renew his contract at the end of the season. As TheDiamond says, this is all nonsense. O'Neill isn't going to quit at this point, and neither is Lerner going to get rid of him. Maybe if things are going badly come Christmas a change might be made, but I'd be very surprised if O'Neill didn't at least see out the season. |
Chrisodon
said:
 |
... I Think Mon's future will be decided on the europa league, After the pigs ears he's made of it the last two times. Also I'm all for a new manager but i honestly don't believe Randy has the knowledge of the Managers capable of replacing Mon. After all it was deadly Doug who appointed O'Neill on the basis a takeover was happening. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Chrisodon I'm also worried that Lerner and the board won't make a good appointment. I would hope that the representatives of the best available managers would let the club now that their clients were interested in the job, and that talks would be set-up at which the board made it clear that a new manager would have control over the playing side of things. After that, it would be a case of our board being able to recognise an outstanding candidate when they saw one. But the new manager, I believe, must have very different ideas to the current manager, and I would be worried that the board might be put off by someone with a very different kind of vision and MO. But maybe they'd just appoint someone on reputation, and if that is true then the question is whether we get lucky and they appoint a good candidate. |
bobvillian
said:
|
... I think if learner gets rid of MON;a manager who con spot talent from Overseas would be on his agenda?look how wenger seems to find these gems with so little outlay; true sign of a good manager. |
frosty
said:
|
... MON's concerns; "Just when you think your team is getting there, getting close to fourth spot, City appear on the horizon with all this money. It seems to be getting further away," he reflected. |
Chiefy
said:
|
... My comment was only a "what if" mon is here a where a while yet, we endure this s**te season after season one day we will get use to it, next week players start arriving, i feel it my water. "Dont stop believing" volume 20. |
Simeon
said:
|
... frosty It sounds to me like he's trying to play down Spurs' achievement. And I guess he might be doing that because he realises that what Redknapp was able to do at Spurs puts into context what he has been unable to do at Villa. I love what he says about needing a squad, and talking about how Man City will have 28-29 top class players. He has assembled his own squad, made up of his own signings, and yet he doesn't use the players he has at his disposal. Just lately he has again been talking about the need for a big squad. He's done it in the past, perhaps because he wanted more money to spend on players. He seems to be doing it now to draw attention to the fact that if he fails he has a ready-made excuse. I get cynical when he starts talking about the virtues of a big squad, firstly because he doesn't use the squad he has, and secondly because he has, on many occasions, said that keeping a settled side and picking your strongest team is the right way to do things. |
taglor
said:
|
... What drives me mad is when people say "well who could we have that is better than mon?" there is actually a whole world of other managers out there! He is not the only person capable of doing the job, I really wonder where we would be this season if Martin Jol/H Redknapp/Rikjaard or someone else had had 4 years and that amount of money? The moment mon goes, if we got another bad manager people would say well you got what u wanted etc but actually it doesnt mean you have to settle for worse than him, if the next manager was as unprofessional or worse then I would want them gone too. Fickle doesnt come into it, I support this team, always have and always will I just want to see them win something, ANYTHING! |
churchill
said:
|
... Simeon Yes, I expected this reaction - principally because it's true. O'Neill doesn't rotate as much as others. As long as a player stays fit and doesn't lose form he will play him week after week if he believes he's the best man for the job. But that's a separate argument - he's still going to need a full squad. He was lucky with injuries last season and wasn't forced to rotate, but if players had got injured he would have needed his bench. And good subs command good wages. Before someone makes another argument on another point, I will concede it. I think both Lerner and O'Neill would like to see the wage bill reduced and take a chance with a smaller squad. Perhaps we will see the youngsters getting their chance more than previously. As far as it goes for the wage bill, the last i read currently our wage bill is around 70 million mark, with a turnover of 84 million, so unless we want to end up like Leeds United it is something that cannot be ignored. The wage bill is the 800lb gorilla in the room - it is always the element of the overhead that takes up virtually everything. It's inevitable, accept it. If Lerner thought, when he bought the club, that he could have an easily manageable wage bill AND win trophies, then he was mistaken. O'Neill is charged with bringing success and it doesn't come cheap. If that's what Lerner wants, he'll have to pay for it. I wouldn't mind seeing a chance taken with a smaller squad. It's not like he needs all of them. We need to avoid Sod's Law though. Chances are that he gets rid of 4 or 5 and doesn't replace them, we'll get a crop of injuries. and at the moment we are waiting for things to fall apart, which will most likely happen around December. There's nothing in O'Neill's track record that suggests that is likely to happen. He has no history of letting things fall apart. |
Gardner
said:
|
...Gardner, It's a deal. I'd hate semantic debates to become yet another variable that's turning Villa fans against each other |
Longman
said:
 |
... Simeon,Spurs have spent less than us? Give me a break: Darren Bent - 16.5m Defoe - £15.75m Modric - £16.5m Palacios - £12m Bentley - £15m Pavlyuchenko - £14m Hutton - £9m Corluka - £8.5m Bassong - £8m Woodgate - £8m Naughton - £7m Dos Santos - £8.5m Crouch - £10m Gomes - £9m Bale - £7m Kaboul - £8.5m Are you having a laugh mate, plus Spurs had spent consistently for the 5 years before MON took over so had a strong basis to work from. MON had Gavin McCann. |
cockneyvillan
said:
 |
... Possible & realistic team for next year, how well would we do with this team or simular? ;--------------------------friedel----------------------- miguel----------------cuellar---dunne------------warnock ----------------------------parker------------------------ young---------------- ireland--------------------downing-- ----------------------------keane------------------------ -------------------------Agbonlahor---------------------- Alot more guile, and i think the football would be a lot better and a possble starting lineup me think! |
john doyle
said:
|
... who is it on here that says mon is the same as arry there is nothing about these 2 that is remote the fact that arry has played his teams 16 times against mon and mon has never beten him says it all arry is in a difrent grade to mon in the players he buys, the way they play and the way he treats his players . the way they use subs and every thing about him is diffrent grade to mon i am sorry to say one guy knows how football should be played and the way to buy players to play that way mon is a one trick pony who only know to play kick and rush counter atacking and thats a fact |
Matt T
said:
|
... Dingbat, I don't think Chelsea are a bigger club (nor are Manchester City) However, if you are going to abandon the rules of business, and pay people anything they like - you are obviously going to attract pretty much anyone. Chelsea and Man City are anomalies - There are few "bigger" clubs than us historically, but this only generally means anything to people who live in this country. Players who didn't grow up with our success (and let's be honest our success has been limited in recent years), aren't going to look at Villa and see our European Cup win in 1982, they are going to see the fact that we haven't won a cup since 1996, and haven't won the title in nearly 30 years. |
Matt T
said:
|
... FatKevs, Re: the wage bill. Yes - I totally agree the reason the wage bill is the way it is is because of our manager, and that is why I support Lerner above O'Neill. However, until the board make the decision to sack O'Neill, or O'Neill walks, then I will be supporting the club and manager by not booing my own team at Villa Park. I think other managers could do a better job, but I have no idea if that thought process is correct. What I do know is that someone like Redknapp has turned a club of our size into a top 4 team in a shorter time than O'Neill has done what he has done. |
pongo
said:
|
... To compare Villa's spending with Spurs is ridiculous, they have spent at least twice what we have over the last 10 years, plus they also have the pull of being in London which we all know matters to players, especially foreign one's. The fact is, our turnover is small compared to a lot of EPL teams and the only way we can progress, is by buying prospects and turning them into good players which MON has an excellent track record of doing. I'm not saying MON is the best manager out there, but he's definatley in the top tier and deserves far more respect from his own fans than he gets on this blog. Damian, I'm all for a balanced debate, but this blog has turned into an anti Lerner/MON site for "so called fans" to vent their bullsh*t on, and you have led the way in this. Your response will probably be that we should be aiming higher than top 6, that whilst MON is an ok manager, he can't take us to the next level. Well who would be able to with our financial restraints? The only way a club can break into the top 4 now is by having a multi billionaire owner who throws millions at the club i.e Chelsea or Citeeh. |
r0bb0
said:
 |
... There's a recurring theme of us having made no progress under MoN/Lerner. The fact is that the last 3 years have matched the best that we've had at this club in the last 30 years. If you look at our league positions, points and cup appearances over the past 30 years you'll see that I'm right. It would be good if everyone could accept that as a start point and we could then discuss areas that are worthy of debate. The real questions are whether we should have done better still and whether any perceived shortcomings are down to the players, the manager or the owner......you might want to add the fans into the mix too! |
Matt T
said:
|
... VillaNick NRC, Sidwell, Maloney, Shorey & Davies etc. were the best MON could buy at the time. Around the same time there was calls for the Manager to buy players like Snjider, Van der vaart etc, totally unrealistic. They would not come to villa then or now! Whether they were the best players he could buy is kind of irrelevant when he then either falls out with them, or he chooses to not play them. I don't criticise his decision to buy players, but what I do have a problem with is that fact that all through last season we ended up with 2 right backs at the club, and a centre half playing right back. If you want to play a centre half at right back, fine. However, if you do, then why are we keeping another 2 on good money doing nothing? Beye seemed like a good acquisition last year, only to find that even though he was a RB, he couldn't even get a game in that position for most of the season. Can you blame the bloke for being irritated? Or for that matter, for sitting on his backside and taking the money now? |
Matt T
said:
|
... Moodyvilla We are light years away as a club from where we were under the last three managers. Yes the chairman has spent money, but the £140m is a long term investement in saleable assets like Milner and Young. £140m is hardly an investment in those two, given that we would maybe get £50m for them combined, and of that £140m, at least £60m of players bought with it would be lucky to even be worth £25m of sales. On that logic, the profit on Milner and Young wouldn't even let us break even - and that's without even including their wage costs. |
r0bb0
said:
|
... john doyle. I wasn't aware that MoN had never beaten a Harry Rednapp team...really interesting bit of info. This comment: mon is a one trick pony who only know to play kick and rushis not a fact though..it's an opinion. If you look at last season's chalkboards you'll see that in the second half of the season we were not a kick and rush team and that the style of play had changed. It's fair enough to discuss whether it was an effective or attractive style of play, but it was not kick and rush. |
True Villan
said:
 |
... man city will be forced to sell players to meet with new rules,let milner go and fill our boots!! ireland, hart,richards,bellamy to name a few, all these palyers would do a job for villa a nd cushion the loss of milner. Davies make weight for keane would see us get him for few mil, sell sidwell, heskey, beye and if he wants out luke young and bring in a quality right back with the money, this would leave us with a good squad with excellent youngsters pushing on happy days at Villa Park! |
bobvillian
said:
|
... HAS ANYBODY MISSED THE POINT THAT WE SELL MILNER TO M.CITY AND PART EXCHANGE WITH J.HART?FRIEDLE IS 40NOW AND TO ME IS LOOKING HIS AGE |
Andy
said:
|
... Churchill said There's nothing in O'Neill's track record that suggests that is likely to happen. He has no history of letting things fall apart. This is simply not true. It is common knowledge, even amongst professional pundits, other managers and footballers that Villa have fallen apart after March and in the latter part of games. It was even made a big issue of by Chelsea. MON has even used the excuse that his players have been tired from the number of games etc. Seems pretty obvious he should have used his squad to me.....The squad he bought too  |
Holte1970
said:
 |
... I have followed this site via another site when Damian sold it off. Damian does a great job in keeping the site active. But as with other positive AV supporters I'm finished. MON is the best manager AV has had in decades, Damian you are a t**t to AV but you are doing great business. This blog must look great on your CV when you sell your journo skills to third parties. You enjoy your life in Sweden. Because you ain't a Brummie. I have seen the light and that's it like Doc Bowles (ex pro footballer?) the negativity helps the site so I am gone and yes no one will miss me but a few of you might remember..... |
Andy
said:
|
...aren't going to look at Villa and see our European Cup win in 1982, they are going to see the fact that we haven't won a cup since 1996, and haven't won the title in nearly 30 years. There's one saving grace. We are more successfull than the England team |
Matt T
said:
|
... Andy, ... Ha ha ha This is true |
Matt T
said:
|
... Andy There's one saving grace. We are more successfull than the England team The sad part is that our buying strategy is to buy England rejects - the rejects of a team that sadly capitulated at the World Cup. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what is. |
Longman
said:
|
... NOOOOOO! Don't go, we can't let this disgusting negativity influence and spread anymore like the cancer it is eating away at our clubs support. I honestly believe this blog should be renamed BCFCblog because the filth written on here does not benefit, it merely creates an air of negativity which spreads onto the terraces. If you honestly feel that talking nothing but negativity as so many of you uneducated imbeciles do has any positive benefit then you just support my comment that you are uneducated imbeciles. |
Longman
said:
|
...You enjoy your life in Sweden. Because you ain't a Brummie. This explains a hell of a lot. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Longman, Not everyone here is negative though. What do you suggest? That we start another blog? Even if people did that, there will always be fans - both negative and positive who post. As for Damian being in Sweden, does this really matter? I grew up about 500 yards from Villa Park, but I don't live there now. Doesn't make me any less of a Villa supporter though (admittedly I am only 15 miles away nowadays though so I can still get to matches) |
Matt T
said:
|
... If we get Joe Hart and Ireland as part of the Milner deal, it really will be a steal... especially when the 25 player squad rule comes in next season, and Man City have to sell half of the team they've spent money buying. Oh that is going to be hilarious because the other clubs won't pay top dollar. |
Longman
said:
|
...Damian you are a t**t to AV but you are doing great business. If this is Damians principle reason for contentious negative stories then I am flabergasted. Lining his pockets at the detriment of the club of love. Shame on you. |
Cuddy_Villa
said:
 |
... i personally think if we sell young its ridiculous our transfer policy is a joke and we wont move forward in the next decade if this is the policy for the next decade and MON is doing the right thing, he has been the best manger in ages and would be a shame to see him go, because of the character and spirit he brings to the team, i dont think there is any manger out there that jumps around like he does he is the messiah whereas RL isnt i know people wont like this but for us to reach the promised land which is the CL, RL must go unless he has to get out his wallet and stop with the sell to buy policy and stop being tight, hes a billionaire for f*** sake |
Longman
said:
|
... Yes it does matter. I could support a team in Japan, but I would never think I had a more accurate opinion of the team, the way they play etc in comparison to someone who goes to every game. You can say you can watch games on TV but football on TV is a different game completely to live football. |
villabiker
said:
 |
... I don't really comment on this blog very often unless its the actual season but i feel compelled to stick up for my club not like the papers and the idiots. What part do some people not understand we are not owned by a billionaire. What part do you not understand young wants to stay at Villa. What part do you not understand Milner is a good player not a great player and not worth 24 million. If you can get that sort of money for him (IMO) I think we should take it. We all want the best for our club but i would not give a dam who is playing for Villa or who the manager is at the end of the day, i am Villa through and through always will be i went through the old division 3, 2 and 1 and at some times get disheartened by some of you. But please let us have some positive thoughts about the Club instead of the negative. We are all Villa through good and bad i know some is bad but the wembleys were great you dont forget days lik that Win or Lose. I have had my say hope i have not affended anyone. p.s. if you dont want to go to the Villa come to the Bulldog Bash! |
Cuddy_Villa
said:
|
... villabiker i agree with what you said but RL isnt exactly short of money is he, hes better of than most PL club chairmen |
Matt T
said:
|
... Longman, So if you are a lifelong Villa fan and then emigrate, you can't have an opinion any more? Seems a little strange. I get what you are saying about live football, and that is why I still go to Villa matches even though I don't live in Birmingham. I'm not sure I buy into the logic that if you go more, that you have more of an opinion or more of a correct opinion. For example, another manager might not attend Villa matches, but they might well be able to say how better a game could be played. I think people should get off O'Neill's back with regard to the team because, at the end of the day, it is up to the board whether he stays or goes, and nothing that anyone is going to say on this blog is going to make Lerner get rid. I support Aston Villa - if MON is our manager, I support him because I love the club, even though I know we have glaring faults. I would never want to become one of the boo boys - I see them at Villa Park and it makes me wonder if they think booing is going to motivate our players to play any better. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Cuddy_Villa He is worth about £800m nowadays. He has spent £140m on transfers alone. Wage bill could be counted at what... say £30m a year. The guy has had income, but it is clear that some of this money has come out of his back pocket. As for him putting that into the club as debt to him - people who disagree with this clearly have no idea of how business works. To put it on a smaller analogy, if you lent one of your mates £20k to go start a new business, I would be pretty surprised if you didn't want at least the same money back. Why people think Lerner is sucking the club dry by spending his own money is beyond me - people should have more respect for the bloke. |
Longman
said:
|
... Matt T, I'm glad you are one of the more balanced contributors to the board. On the point of opinions, I don't mean just because you don't go to matches you can't have an opinion, but Damian often acts like he is the all seeing eye when it comes to the villa and very smuggly tries to belittle those that disagree with him. If there were two newspaper reports, one written by a journalist who was at the game, the other by a jouranlist who sat at home and watched it on the internet which would you say would carry greater substance and insight? |
Holte1970
said:
|
... I am trying to say that controversial news is good news. It sells newspapers and it sells blogs. This post in itself prolongs the life of the site. And who knows I appreciate Longmans comments - but he may be Damian - just keeping things active.... I hope not! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Longman, I totally agree that if you are there, you can see with your own eyes how the game is progressing than the opinion of what a TV camera might be putting across. I guess Damian is just like all of us - he has an opinion, and he voices it. I think sometimes the bloke has to try and appear unbiased, but then this kind of leads to being both positive and negative - which then means that he gets pulled apart for being both. I don't know what the solution is really - people could start another blog, but then what? Surely it would just be the same situation? I mean, I have written for this blog before on several occassions, so do you think it would benefit to have somewhere else completely different, or should Damian have more contributors? |
Cuddy_Villa
said:
|
... Matt T i do have respect for him i understand some of the budget comes out of his back pocket and he wants money back but just for one transfer window spend a little more money then dont spend as much the next one just let MON loose with the money for once, i have confidence in MON and RL Villabiker i think you might be right |
villabiker
said:
|
... matt t spot on m8 i used to have a small little firm times got hard had to let 1 go WHY if i did not i went bust the other way i made money and thats life not fair but life 800000k a lot but the way football is going not a lot |
Rowley Villain
said:
|
... Longman Spot on and what you've said makes alot of sense. I really didn't realise that Damian lived in Sweden! I'd love to hear Damian's response but he never seems to post comments when he feels he may not be able to 'belittle' them, as you put it. |
Holte1970
said:
|
... This bloke runs the site... http://www.O****e.com/blogs/avfcblog/posts/aston-villa-blog-announcement---a-new-chapter-begins |
Matt T
said:
|
... Holte1970, I agree - controversy does sell news. In papers, it serves to make money. Negativity here doesn't really do anything besides make the club look like it is torn in half which, in reality, I think is far from the case. I must say that comparing the average view on here against the average Villa fan opinion in the pub, or at (most of) the ground, this seems the more negatively swayed opinion. That said, a lot of the people who I know who are super optimistic are also the same people who don't actually go to matches. |
Holte1970
said:
|
... Last post censored, That's fine. Your blogger is Damien Dugdale... google the name if you are interested. Obviously not the real name. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Well I will put my hat back in the ring - I will be willing to write articles again for the blog if Damian lets me again. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Holte1970, That bloke ran the site when Damian was writing for o*****e, as was announced back last year. He then came back and did this blog again to my recollection. PS I think the website has blocked part of the URL so this blog can't promote it. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Thing is guys... If the article generates a load of comments, then the blog become more valuable. I can't speak for the bloke as I don't know him well, but I do think that he is just trying to write articles that provoke a good response. To that end, you've got to give him credit for doing so because it is working. |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... http://soccernet.espn.go.com/n...rs&cc=5739 Could this mean Milner wont be leaving?? |
Matt T
said:
|
... Aero-4-Villa, I doubt it - they have 14 midfielders already and only recently bought Boateng, Silva and Yaya Toure. Milner and Balotelli are still on their radar. Expect a massive sale at City at the end of this season.... |
Primetime
said:
 |
... I've been a villa fan all my life, and when my father took me to my first game in 1988 (liverpool at home) I was hooked on the villa. And I must say this present time at the club has got to be the most exciting since I've been watching, the nearist has to be big rons rain. We are in the best league in the world, iv no doubt we will have two very good cup runs and hopefully wembley trips at the end of them. And I think we can compeat in the second europe cup competition which should be our main goal for this season. On transfers I think we only need one striker. At this point in time at the club we need to pump most of the talanted kids we have coming in the the first team. In doing this even a top ten finish would be a good season, and next season the kids will be some much better and experienced and being the furture. It maybe a back wards step but a back wards step to take a massive leap forward maybe our best option. Bonus points for anyone who can tell me the score and scorers from the Liverpool home game back in 1988? |
churchill
said:
|
... Gardner It's a deal. I'd hate semantic debates to become yet another variable that's turning Villa fans against each other Top man. |
cyprusvilla
said:
|
... dont take any money of city only players hart ireland bellamy santa cruz and swp and then take keane and bentley from spuds and get rid of all oursurplus players apart from davies and l young |
Matt T
said:
|
... Villabiker, 800000k a lot but the way football is going not a lot Exactly. It's a case of scale. For what money our club has, we have spent a lot. From there we have two choices - a) we accept that this building process is a slow one and will take maybe another 5 years of investment and stability (and our chairman seems to want to keep stability with the same manager) or b) we hope that Lerner can find an oil sheikh to sell Villa to. My only concern with the latter option is that when the playboy owner gets bored, we could end up going into freefall - the same way that both Chelsea and Man City will when the plugs are pulled (whenever that might be). I personally think we could do better (either through O'Neill or another manager) but I know that I support my team fully so I won't start saying we should have the manager sacked. I will however, feel legitimately able to question why we have a group of players on big money (relatively speaking) who are sitting on the bench. This I feel is my right to opinion, as opposed to any particular decision to just say the manager should be sacked. I know enough about football from playing it, and managing teams but I will never state my claim that I know how to be a manager in the Premier League. I do however know a lot about business and, on the ground of what Randy has done, I know that our club is doing it's best to run itself like a business, and not like a consequence-less gambling machine much like some clubs. I personally applaud this and, whilst we have not got to top 4 status yet, I believe that the way our club is run by our board is the right, proper and correct way. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Cyprusvilla, Hart won't be offered - he is under 21 and, as such, is not included in the 25 player squad rule. |
churchill
said:
|
...I don't know what the solution is really - people could start another blog, but then what? Surely it would just be the same situation? I mean, I have written for this blog before on several occassions, so do you think it would benefit to have somewhere else completely different, or should Damian have more contributors? I guess you would put me on the side of the posso's. Damo rarely rejects anything I send in and if he does it's probably more to do with the fact that it's way off topic than whether he agrees with it or not. Send something in. There are only two rules: 1] Genuinely believe in the things you are writing about. Be passionate if you can. 2] Make your point and stop. No more than 500 words if possible. The discipline it promotes is good. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Churchill, Yes - I have liked your posts, and I too have never had any of my posts rejected, I just do not always have the time to write something thoughtfully written. I do think we need others who want to write though, rather than just constantly be overly negative/positive (delete as appropriate) |
McParland
said:
 |
... Watched a program on bbc 1 or 2 a few nights ago about the great brian clough it was a very good watch and showed a very young MON and winger John Robertson.Forrest seemed to be playing counter attacking football in the clips they showed much the same as we seem to do under MON.While i have no doubts that this method was very successful under clough in that particular era i am not convinced it suits todays gamein the manner many seem to think it does,Can MON actualy give us different options to just being a counter attacking team? because when teams suss us out and just sit back we seem totaly impotent and inefective. |
Matt T
said:
|
... PS My mistake - it appears Joe Hart is 23 so he will be part of the 25 rule. I can't see Hart wanting to leave when he would not just walk into our first XI past Friedel given our current manager. Also, it would send out the wrong signals to Guzan, surely? |
Matt T
said:
|
... McParland, You mean the documentary about Clough being the best manager England never had? Or the Damned United? |
Matt T
said:
|
... As for it being suitable for the time, yes Clough was a master of the late 70s/80s. His Forest team went down on the last day of the season of his last season though - shows his tactics had become outmoded even then. |
villabiker
said:
|
... to be fair i think hart could walk straight in the team with guzan the jury is still ouy |
dingbat
said:
|
... Compare what Lerner paid for Villa against other clubs that have recentley changed hands! Bargain! |
frem
said:
|
... This is really a make or break summer for villa. Teams like spurs, city and Liverpool will be adding on what they have and getting stronger because off it. We cant forget the usual, United, Chelsea and Arsenal will all be around the top of the table so its hard to see where we can actually go. There is huge competition next season for everyone and we need to try our best to keep up with them. Obviously we don’t have the amount of financial depth as city and spurs do but it doesn’t mean we are down and out. The last couple of transfer windows spurs and city have had a greater amount of money to spend than we have but still we kept up with the both of them and the same will hopefully happen again this season. One thing that gets me is that day by day it seems to get clear that oneill has no money at the moment to spend and for a club in a position we are in its really really poor that we don’t. Saying that we only really need four new players who wont cost a huge amount. I know it gets on your tits but Ireland is absolutely vital in my view as part of the milner deal. Keane, witsel and mgeady would be welcome as well. At this moment in time its worrying. Talk of milner and young both leaving isn’t good. Ive never been more worried ahead of a season than this one. We just have to hope mon and randy turn it around quickly because at this moment in time, it just seems doom and gloom |
Matt T
said:
|
... Villabiker, I personally think Hart is a better player but a) I don't think he would leave here because of b) I don't think the manager would drop Friedel. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Frem, In order to make money to actually buy players, O'Neill needs to clear out players he currently has. Given the fact that NRC, Sidwell, Davies, Luke Young, Shorey etc either a) won't be bought by anyone or b) won't raise anywhere near enough money, then the sale of Milner and/or Young is the only way we are going to make money. Say what you like about our owner, but the bloke has given our manager £140m. Our net spend is relatively high compared to many teams, so we should really look at the idea of buying in players like Milner/Ashley Young who we can actually sell at some point. People can construe this as buy to sell, but it is just running a club like a business. Tottenham do exactly the same, and they have done pretty well out of it. |
frem
said:
|
... matt- i know we have to sell our fringe but what are we going to get ,10 million from them. Thats nothing, randy should be putting in another 10- 20 million on top |
Matt T
said:
|
... We do however need to clear out any player who clearly isn't going to feature for us next season. I personally would rather sell Shorey, Sidwell or other players for any amount, rather then keep them on the wage bill where they are sucking the club dry. If we need these players, then we need to play them. If you don't play a player, and then you try to sell him, it is clear that you are never going to make a profit. The only players who will make us money are the younger ones who play for the team regularly in the Premier League - Ashley Young, Milner, Gabby. Beyond that, we have a team of very little resale value. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Frem, Randy should give the Sky money to O'Neill for this season. That is about £50m. I do however think that if he puts £50m in plus any profit from player sales, then O'Neill should accept that if he doesn't finish 4th with that sort of money, he should be sacked at the end of the season. |
Matt T
said:
|
... O'Neill then would effectively have been called out and proved that he is either the right or wrong man for the job. If we get into the top 4, the money from it will help sustain a bigger budget from then on. If we don't, then we can look at getting in a manager who will take us there. |
McParland
said:
|
... Mat ,i am refering to the program that showed clough and peter taylor together and after taylor left for derby county. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Longman I was talking about net spend rather than gross spend. Spurs have recouped far more in player sales than we have in the past four years. I take the point that when O'Neill came in the team was in pretty ropey shape, but at the same time there was still a nucleus of very good players (Barry, Laursen, Mellberg, Agbonlahor) and other players who could do a reasonable job at Premiership level. Given O'Neill has a reputation for being able to get the best out of players, he had something to work with. Churchill I too believe it makes sense to operate with a far smaller squad given our manager's philosophy on squad management. But reducing the wage bill is far easier said than done. The other point I'd make is that our manager will often pick players who aren't fully fit, despite having perfectly good replacements available to him. His definition of 'fully-fit' seems to be a little different to the norm. And come to think of it, he will often keep faith with a player who isn't doing the business, preferring to allow the player to play his way into form. The classic example was Petrov a couple of seasons back. But last season, Downing was terrible on a consistent basis, yet kept his place in the team. Warnock had a poor second half of the season - primarily because he wasn't fully fit - and yet he stuck wih him rather than picking Luke Young, who was excellent at left back the season before. All of which suggests that we should have no more than 16-17 players on our books on first-team wages, and that we should make up the numbers with the kids. If Lerner and O'Neill have realised this, then I am thankful, but I fear that the damage has already been done given the hige amount of money that has already been wasted. |
McParland
said:
|
... Not wishing to pour salt into anyones wounds when i mention this,But our rival blues seem to have done ok under big Eck and without spending much i believe.So if its villas problem that we do not have enough cash whoes fault is it? when blues can scrap and compete like they have done on virtualy scraps compered with us/ |
Simeon
said:
|
... bobvillian I was suggesting we got Hart as part of the Milner deal a long way back. The Friedel problem would be solved by sending him to Man City as part of the deal. Man City need a short-term fix with Given injured, and Friedel could do a job for a month or so, and then provide decent backup, presumably getting games in the league cup and Europa League, and perhaps against weaker Premiership opposition. Man City then don't have to worry about trying to keep two high quality keepers happy, and we solve the looming goalkeeper problem in one fell swoop. The problem would seem to be that Hart is so promising that Man City see him as their long-term keeper. I wouldn't be surprised if Given were moved on at the end of this season, or perhaps even in January. I think if, right from the start, we'd insisted on Hart being included in any deal, we might have had a chance. But the truth is that Man City are the one who can dictate terms, and so Hart is probably a pipedream. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T I think the club has already mortgaged its future (though not as severely as Leeds did, for example) in spending the money it has in the past four years. I think the plan was to have got Champions League football by now, but it hasn't worked. As such, there can be no new investment, because we are not generating new income. I don't think the club is in financial trouble exactly, but there is no doubt that our financial position is severely weakened. As you say, we have a bunch of players who've played very little football this past season and who therefore have little or no value on the transfer market. We have players I think we'd struggle to give away. What looks likely is that we will be stuck with these players until their contracts run out, meaning that we can't bring in new players without putting a dangerous strain on our finances. I believe what we need to do is accept this reality, and give these players games so that either we can sell them, or they will sign new contracts. If this means selling players who have played regularly this past season to make room in the first team for the currently out of favour players, so be it. It will benefit the clubs finances enormously, and leave us in a stronger position to rebuil come next summer. |
Geoff
said:
|
... I have been reading about Spurs moving quickly to hijack the Milner deal by offering a better package. I would rather see Milner go to Spurs, mainly because he will get more playing time and would be a better fit for them, but because Spurs and others have accepted that we will not sell Ashley Young or Gabby (forget those rumors, he is not for sale) and they must move on Milner now. Apparently they would offer two players of the three we have been after of theirs plus cash for Milner. It would be two of Bentley,Jenas,Keane plus 5-10M cash for Milner. I would take Keane and Bentley. Keane obviously has to be in the deal to make it work though. The cash recieved could go to Aiden McGeady or Axel Witsel. So the idea being if you take Jenas and Keane, then you use the money on McGeady and if you take Bentley and Keane you use the money on Witsel. I see Witsel as a great replacement for Milner, but I do not fancy Jenas as more than a bench player. I would reluctantly take Bentley as a backup winger. Witsel is younger and better than Jenas, and I think the gulf between McGeady and Bentley is not as wide as the gap betweek Jenas and Witsel. So you buy Witsel, and take Bentley and Keane on board in exchange for Milner. Given the sell to buy that is not so bad really. I would also prefer to deal with Spurs as I do not hate them nearly as much as Manchester City. I actually respect Spurs for getting to the top four without spending like Manchester City have. Spurs have spent lots of money though, big time, but its not so grossly out of line as Manchester City. Maybe there are some other players Spurs have that would be realistic to see as being moved? Maybe Giovanni Dos Santos... |
ponton
said:
 |
... If I was Mon, I will ask a striker/Ireland/right back + cash for Milner. With the rest of the money, i will go for Riquelme, trust me he will come if you convince him there is a challenge at the club. (He left Barcelona for Villareal, that club is even smaller than Villa). Riquelme is out of contract at Boca Juniors.. I buy Hleb for 5 -6M, and Flamini for the same amount..They want to come back to the PL..I will also buy Annan, he’s going to be a top player.. For the striker we should buy Llorente of Bilbao, I think he’s worth something like 15-20M.If we cant afford him, we should‘ve a look at Honda or Huntelaar or Klose..Keane will cost us so much for nothing.. This summer i am not afraid of losing Milner or even Young because you have a lot of quality players available.. The team will be more balanced and we 've more depth: ------------------Friedel/Guzan------------------ Lichaj/Cuellar/Flamini----Collins/Clarke--Dunne/Cuellar---Warnock --------------------- ----Flamini/Annan------------------- -------------------------Petrov/Deplh----------------- -Hleb/Downing---------Riquelme/Ireland--------------Young -------------------Llorente/Gabby/Carew/Heskey------------------- |
mon 4-5-1
said:
|
...The wage bill is the 800lb gorilla in the room - it is always the element of the overhead that takes up virtually everything. It's inevitable, accept it. If Lerner thought, when he bought the club, that he could have an easily manageable wage bill AND win trophies, then he was mistaken. O'Neill is charged with bringing success and it doesn't come cheap. If that's what Lerner wants, he'll have to pay for it. Agreed up to a point, yes the wage bill will rise with the addition of supposedly better players to improve the squad, and push for honours, but at the end of the day this also requires producing results, and growth in our turnover. Unfortunately if success (Champions League Football) is not achieved in the time plan set then the inevitable happens, cutbacks, and a rethink of original goals set, possible step back, and selling of our prized assets. Having said the above I could find a case for O’Neil but he is his own worst enemy. He constantly complains about squad depth, players being tired, yet he fails to rotate the squad, or even use these players as subs to change the course of a game if required. He will always take the expensive option of buying domestic based players, who will command a high salary, when the logical option could be to go abroad, to get the same quality of player for a smaller fee, with a smaller wage demand. And finally and most critically, in the 4 seasons at his time at the club there has been zero youth development,. I could mention three players that could quite simply have played last season, but were never trusted, or given a chance. Along with some new additions the development and addition of youth players to the senior squad holds the future, they will have saved us a fortune, with far more commitment to the Villa cause, and would command initially a much smaller salary until they are proven. Now if the above changes for the following season then my opinion on O'Neil will change, however I am convinced he will never change a habit of lifetime, just by what is currently transpiring with the Milner transfer, becoming another Barrygate. |
dick511
said:
|
... Including kids (i.e Albrighton, Bannon, Lichaj etc), according to sky sports we have a squad of 30 players. With the squad of 25 rule about to come in does this sell before we buy rule put in place not make perfect sence? Why would we want to be paying the wages of a load of players we're not gonna be allowed to use. I'd Guess that the likes of Baker, Herd, Hogg, Baker and Osbourne will be left out of the final figure and left to "progress" in the reserves/ youth. Leaving us with the magic number, then from these players comes the potential sell-ons. In my opinion, I'd expect Shorey, Beye, Sidwell (a given) and sadly Milner to go. So as we have loads of CB's to keep happy I can't see us replacing Shorey or Beye with someone from outside, Lichaj looks good cover for Warnock and L.Young for Cuellar at RB ( ). Leaving us with the opportunity to buy four midfield/ attacking players! I'll let you dream up the potential signings yourselves. As I said above this is just my opinion, but it makes me just a little more hopefull for the forthcoming season than I have been lately. Especially realising that manc citeh will have to pay or quickly sell on 22 players even before they try and get milner! Sorry to bang on, UTV! |
Bobby B
said:
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... when was our earliest signing with mon in charge? was it late july? not including downing. does anyone know? i think its time for someone at villa to come out and tell us wat is going on? liverpool were the circus last year and now we are! |
VillaNick
said:
|
...ponton |
mon 4-5-1
said:
|
... And finally topic on wages, below something I read – Funny that if you look at the 2 squads you could not imagine that we are playing 20 odd million more a season on wages compared to Everton. Everton's wage bill of £49m compares to villa's £71m; ie why Blues can become more successful than villa's debt laden monster! Lerner has invested £179 million since his initial acquisition of the club, with £95 million in equity and a further £84 million in interest-free loans. Despite increasing turnover by 11 per cent to £84 million, the club made a record loss of £43.7 million in their last published accounts. Player wages rose from £50.4 million to £70.6 million by last summer — 84 per cent of turnover. By contrast, Everton’s wage bill of £49.1 million represented 62 per cent of turnover. |
mon 4-5-1
said:
|
... Shorey – £25k Salifou – £5k Harewood – £25k Released on a Free. Davies – £20k Heskey – £60k Carew – £60k Milner – £40k Bouma – £25k Released on a free. Sidwell – £50k Beye – £40k total savings approx – £350k a week And the only regular senior player in that list will soon be off. |
Andy
said:
|
... It's funny how some people say MO has brought stability to our club. I'm thinking though that we have a certain amount of financial instability at the moment. At the moment it's looking that Aston Villa are having to do what the ConDem government are having to do and rectify the poor economics of recent years...?! Seeing as we have free reign to use the word 'intimated' at the moment I see The General has 'intimated' that players have been bought, yet not utilised properly and were drawing wages for doing nothing. I would be fully behind MON having such players as NRC and L Young, paying them good money if he's actually going to use them in a squad. There is currently a total waste of Aston Villa assets and money and this practice has to stop. I appreciate that not all buys work out, but when they are left out because they are not the teachers pet or not used for cup games or proper rotation or played in their natural position, such as L Young, then it is a waste of money and probably points or silverware. |
ponton
said:
|
... VillaNick:I know Riquelme is a strange suggestion but we can afford him if we want..He's a free agent.. Hleb isnt going to get a game for Barcelona this season,Barcelona want to offload him because they 're going to give their chance to some young players..They will accept a 5-6M offer.. Flamini is in the same situation as Hleb and struggle with the Italian football..Annan is playing at Rosenberg.. We can afford all this players if we want.. |
Chiefy
said:
|
...Milner is highly-praised for his versatility, but I can't see him holding down a regular starting place either on the wings or in the centre of midfield. Due to their recent signings, City have well over a dozen other midfielders in their ranks already. One of those is now a World Cup winner and another was a first-teamer at Barcelona for the past three years. From a Man City Blog they are hardly singing and dancing that Milner is going, James there are going to be tears and they wont be ours |
AussieLion
said:
|
... So that rule is starting this season? I wasnt sure if it was true or not. But from the players available I would gladly take De Jong and Ireland as we could get them for a cheaper price as everyone will know they have to sell anyway. Or better yet Mancini can include them and 15m in the Milner deal so all we'll have to get is another forward with the 15m. Friedel Cuellar Collins Dunne Warnock (for now) Downing Ireland De Jong Young Gabby Forward Guzan Carew Petrov Albrighton Delfouneso Clark Which I believe will be a overall improved team. wage bill is around 70 million mark, with a turnover of 84 million, Obviously that is way too high as that equals 83% of the clubs turnover, which is bad when running a business. Therefore it is just basic business sense to sell as many players as possible to get them off the wage bill. As for Damian being in Sweden, does this really matter? I grew up about 500 yards from Villa Park, but I don't live there now. Doesn't make me any less of a Villa supporter though Thats a stupid comment Longman and Matt's right. It doesnt mean that just because people dont live in Birmingham that they are any less of a supporter. We can still have our own ideas and opinions even though we live in other countries, because we all love the club! |
Simeon
said:
|
... mon 4-5-1 In addition to having a very favourable wages-to-turnover ratio, Everton had a net spend before this summer of zero over the past four years (NB this does not include the Rooney sale). Despite the remarkable success Everton have had in recent years, given their relatively tiny financial outlay, their fans are still disatisfied with their board - and who am I to say their fans are wrong? They want to see their manager given more backing, and you can see that if Moyes was given that little bit extra backing that he might just elevate them back into the Champions League. (The point should be made that, despite this dissatisfaction, the Everton support on matchdays is excellent.) Meanwhile, the Villa fans as a whole seem happy to make excuses for our own manager's inadequacies, and ignore the fact that we have spent massively in recent years to little effect. Purely on the basis of the attitudes of the respective club's support, Villa would have to concede that Everton are a far bigger club. The apparent lack of ambition of so many Villa fans is, in my view, a problem that really needs to be addressed. How to go about doing that is unclear. |
Chiefy
said:
|
...The apparent lack of ambition of so many Villa fans is, in my view, a problem that really needs to be addressed. How to go about doing that is unclear. Thats is a huge generalisation that I dont think you can back-up. Do they lack ambition because they believe in our manager? do they lack ambition because they think selling milner is a good thing? how on earth can you make that statement and on what judgement have you made to come to that conclusion? |
Simeon
said:
|
... Chiefy To fuly explain would take more time than I presently have. But the general satisfaction with 'mixing it' with the big boys and runs in meaningless cup competitions is a good start. However, being pleased at sellin Milner has nothing to do with it! |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Simeon After having years of piss all to celebrate a couple of good cup runs and being in the running for fourth up until 2 weeks before the end of the season I would say we was "mixing it" and I would also say that gives fans even more reason to want success. Now dont get me wrong I have said MON will bring us limited success and not very often, we need someone who can either give MON the opportunity to get success all the time (money) or a new way of playing. Just think it is a massive generalisation that you have made and I am unsure on what qualifies you or anyone you to make a judgement of such . |
Chiefy
said:
|
...Rovers distance themselves from Heskey link Not surprised, they must have watched the season review just after someone thought it was a good idea to sign him. Pants EMULE is going to be here next season as well |
leight
said:
 |
... if our finances are as bad as to be believed, i think we should stick with what we got for now, spend the next 2 seasons developing the likes of clark, lichaj, albo, fonz, bannan, delph as this is mon's strongest element of management, maybe just the 1 signing (creative midfielder) friedel young cuellar dunne warnock nrc petrov young sidwell downing gabby subs lichaj fonz bannan clark beye collins |
leight
said:
|
... and FFS whatever team we end up with come start of season lets get behind our side, yes OUR beloved aston villa football club. up the villa |
vivavilla
said:
|
... What's all this crap about Milner and O'Neill set for crunch talks today? I thought this was decided, why does it need to keep dragging on? |
Chiefy
said:
|
... viva -- I completely get you, crunch talks about what ?? Milner is going end of I dont see why they have to kiss and make up before he goes, 14 days till valencia 21days till the season begins and we have no sign of anyone coming in, either MON is being very very brave or he knows something we dont |
DAJ
said:
 |
... Nice to see some of the Martinettes resorting to abusing other Villa fans because they hold a differing viewpoint. I guess when youvespent the last couple of years puking out the same cliched excuses then find youve been sold a lie, you have nothing less than to be offensive. Quite ridiculous really, since we all want whats best for the club, but just have a differing view on how we achieve it. Nobody can be blamed if the club and Martin have started to send defeatist messages and back tracked from the hype they fed us all. I bought it aswell up to the end of last season. I like Randy, and want him at the club, but certian comments dont add up, and we as the clubs lifeblood have the right to debate them, and yes......question them. I find a lot of things the Martinettes say quite valid, vice versa i agree with a lot of what Simeon and Andy say quite accurate. But please lets be a little more civil about things, and remmember that AVFC is all of ours club, and that people like Randy are just looking after it in OUR name. And on that, where is evryone meeting at Walsall on Tuesday??????? |
KrisAVFC
said:
|
... To be honest i can't see Milner leaving, obviously i won't be suprised if he does but with recent happenings i just think he'll end up staying because city will pull out, they already have so many new players (Barry, Toure, Silva) that play in his positions and with havign to sell 12 players would they really waste another 25 million adding to their midfield when in my opinion their lacking in the upfront, with only Adebayor and tevez really decent players. The link also with balotelli coming in for a further 20 million + would bring the number of players they have to sell up to 14. All that for a player they don't really need!! |
DAJ
said:
|
... Kris..... Rumour has it from the Man City side, that a bid went in on Friday last, and an imprved bid went in yesterday. And talks today? Well if true about yesterdays bid, then i think Man City have their man |
mon 4-5-1
said:
|
... Simeon really does put things into perpesctive, and shows as a club we have moved backwards. In 2005 under Ellis and DOL our wage bill was 32 million. If you take into account wages have been inflated in the last few years, it still does not excuse the fact that they have now more than doubled for us , and still no success on the pitch. Our overall squad asset has actually decreased, our football is one dimensional. And to top things off it now looks like the Milner saga has still not run it's course yet. |
AussieVillan
said:
|
... If we don't sign anyone and milner stays it might be a good thing as now they all have had the whole of last season playing together and will know each others games more !!! |
Martin Pitt
said:
 |
... As a Wakefield based but ardent Villa fan as I'm still a Brummie at heart, I was as shocked as anyone at Mondays shock news but here's a thought. I know he has no experience and he's got his TV pundit fees to think about, but howsabout Andy Townsend for Manager. An all time great Villain and he'd be so inspirational. Let me know what you all think. |
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