Written by Jerry Friday, 20 November 2009 10:42
Football is a sport; it is not real life. For sport to be meaningful and fulfil certain needs that human beings have, it needs to have rules. If it didn’t have rules, it would be meaningless. A bit like real life often is.
The problem is that there are twenty two players and one referee and if the players all abandon the rules at the same time he couldn’t cope – he’d be overrun by the chaos. So most of the players play by the rules because if they didn’t, the game would become chaotic. And meaningless. Neither the players nor the spectators would get anything out it.
On the pitch there’s an implied, but fairly strict, rule: ‘the only way to get anything out of this is to play by the rules’ and, generally, this rule is observed - there is a taboo against breaking it.
When the rule is broken and it affects the result in a significant way, there is outrage. Cheating in ‘real life’ is ubiquitous which is why we turn to sport for a return to the ‘fairness’ that we all crave but can’t get in the real world.
That’s the whole point of ‘sport’. It represents the justice that we cannot get in reality.
The valued human virtues of talent, skill, endeavour, wisdom and courage are all necessary components of victory in a football match. If a team of eleven men can so bond together and employ these virtues in an heroic fashion, they can beat anyone. They can become godlike. That’s why we watch.
Cheating is the absolute antithesis of phenomenon. Which is why we hate it.
Henry diminished himself and his country last night. France’s participation in the World Cup has now become meaningless. They could go ahead and win it and the only consequence would be that they would be reviled for it. But the Irish were not diminished by their defeat – they were ennobled. They displayed and employed all the virtues and were cheated of their deserts. And we love them for it. They were the real winners.
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Jackie Boy
said:
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... The irony is that Mr Henry has taught the Irish nation how to really play a bit of GAA |
Adrian Kilgallon
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... Cheers Churchill for your kind words. But a moral victory doesn't sit too well just yet at least. We would reather be going to SA. I honestly think that England should pull out now and offer us their spot instead. We would apprectiate that lads.  |
Dan Clinton
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... That match devastated me, I had to drink a massive amount of Guinness and whiskey to get over it. I suffered for it yesterday!! That was a superb match and I think even neutrals who watched it would have been delighted by the competitive game that Ireland gave themselves an unexpectedly good chance of winning. However, in some ways the lack of class Ireland perpetually suffer from really showed when they failed to finish the goals that would have won them the match before injury time. They couldn't, and in some TINY way I am grateful that at least Ireland were spared the stress of losing to penalties (although the old 'anything can happen' rule meant we may have won, something about the difference between the two line ups makes me sceptical). To finish, never have I had more sympathy for the English with the old "Hand of God" debacle! |
Rattus NorVillicus
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... Sorry Churchill but you are writing absolute rubbish. The players are there to win football matches - that's it. They are not there to uphold some moral code that you or anyone else as invented. There is not a single player registered to play professional football anywhere in the world that would have said "sorry ref I handballed it - don't allow the goal" That being the case, all this moral outrage is, I'm afraid to say, just so much meaningless pontificating of the type that's generally found in tabloid newspapers. It's just a game - if people don't like how it's played introduce technology to help the refs. Churchill: I generally like your stuff, but this is Grade A, 24 Carat, top of the tree, BUNKAM |
Enda
said:
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... He handled it not once, but twice. Even in volleyball that's a foul. Nice post, Jerry. |
Eoin Greene
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... Jerry - as an irishman - its nice to get some support but I disagree with some stuff (unusual...). In an ideal world, nobody would cheat but in reality nobody cares - its the winning and loosing that counts. That doesn't mean that it doesn't pi%% you off when it goes against you though. Frankly - the whole 'moral victory' means absolutely nothing to us. With sporting greats like Harrington, O'Driscoll, O'Connell and O'Brian over the past decade - Ireland no longer accepts anything less than the best and frankly its an astonishing turnaround for such a small country. Another word for a moral victory - is a loss. I am absolutely sickened, but the reason we lost is we didn't take our chances and France scored a lucky goal in Dublin and a freak goal in Paris. By the time the world cup comes around, everyone (bar the irish!) will have forgotten about the incident. I dont even blame Henry because if Keano did it at the other end - we would be delighted. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or the next coming of mother teresa. Are Diego Maradona and Argentina reviled for winning the 1986 world cup? Is and are Neil Back and Leicester hated for when they cheated against Munster? Most sports, with the exception of golf have little moral codes - you get away with what you can. What the Henry incident proves beyond any reasonable doubt is that Fifa MUST take the decision to use technology. Coaches should either be allowed 1-2 challenges per game in decisions that directly affect goals, or else the 4th official should have more 'power'. 5s after the incident on wednesday - the 4th referee could have said to the ref that it was multiple handballs and multiple offsides. |
Alex Glynn
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... Fenian Villain, we have to be honest here: there are worse ways to mourn than excessive Guinness consumption. In fact, when I get home I might do some 'mourning' of my own. And Jackie Boy, that bears a strange resemblance to a comment made by Dara O'Brian.. In general I think luck goes both ways, sometimes you get cheated and sometimes you dont - the horrific Liverpool v Man City dive cause the equalising goal to be scored, for example. Sure this is a particularly awful case and I feel immensely for the Irish and hate the French, but let's just hope it swings back in your favour some point. Henry gets hit by a truck or something - oh, did I say that out loud? |
Alex Glynn
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... And eoin, yes, Diego and Argentina are pretty much despised for that, among the people I know anyway.. |
Adrian Kilgallon
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... Eoin as usual i agree. Myself and my mate were last night having a few pints and we said what would we have done if Keane had got the winner that way to put the French out? Would we offer a replay and would we be ashamed as a nation? I can tell you we would be dancing in the streets laughing about it with fake plastic hands and not too many would really care about how we did it. As for offering a replay to France? No chance. I think Henry is perhaps getting far too much stick as it happened so fast and yes he did it on purpose in a split second but most players would actually have done the same thing. But what needs to be got from this situation is that real pressure needs to be exerted on those corrupt bastards in FIFA so that from now on rules will be set from the start and cannot ever be changed like they did with the seedings and also video evidence has to be introduced as a result of what went on Wed night. If that means the FAI sue FIFA for loss of earnings(€30m) then thats what has to be done. Thats all FIFA care about so that is how they should be attacked. In an ideal world Platini and Blatter should be forced to resign their positions in FIFA and UEFA. |
Eoin Greene
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... glynnder - Maradona is more powerful than God in Argentina so I think its fair to say that he has been 'forgiven' there. Also his standing as one of the greatest players of all time generally doesn't come with an asterix beside it. I'm sure may english haven't forgiven him as dont think the irish will forget Henry, but outside their own countries - who will care! |
TS'81
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... This article is completely over the top - it sounds like the kind of rubbish a sky sports advert would come out with to promote the next game. It's patronising to real football supporters. Unlucky Ireland, you should have won it in normal time or got a better result in the home leg. If I was Irish I would obviously be really angry - but I'm not - so I can take the impartial view that things like this happen in football. I actually think fair play to Henry (excuse the pun) cos' he got away with it. Yes, with no rules there would be chaos but that is why getting away with something without the ref seeing has always been part of the game - if it is spotted you get punished. The ref was poor not to spot it, but tough, it happens sometimes. Henry outsmarted the Irish and the ref and that is part of the game. All these ex-players that have come out and made comments are just fortunate they didnt have 10 camera angles and video technology in their games. Otherwise most would be exposed as hypocrites. I wanted Ireland to qualify and the seeding issue is a scandal. But what happened in the game is just part of the game. |
Mike Carter
said:
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... Nice piece but a bit over the top I think. "France’s participation in the World Cup has now become meaningless" - case in point. Come next year, everybody bar British folk will probably have forgotten all about it. At the end of the day it's just another game with controversy. We see it every week. Just because it broke the hearts of a country instead of a club, it doesn't really make this particular incident any different. |
davidc
said:
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... No, no, no to video evidence. I'm a traditionalist through and through. These decisions do balance themselves. Didn't Ireland get a dodgy penalty after a clear Keane handball when the played Georgia in the qualifiers (and this remember after FIFA had forced Georgia to forgo home advantage)? Its painful, and it hurts, but it does balance out eventually. |
Nick
said:
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... If I was South Africa i'd sue FIFA for loss of revenue for not allowing the game to be replayed. Whos really going to be drinking more alcohol at the World Cup, the French or the Irish?! |
Adrian Kilgallon
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... davidc these things do not balance themselves out at all. That is just rubbish mate. So we get a dodgy pen in the next qualfication group to get an extra 2 points and that = not qualifying for the WC? No chance. You can't just take one poor decision and put it againest another without taking the significance of the game involved. I would have thought a Villa fan would understand this. Anyone remember how many minutes they played at Old Trafford when Utd beat Sheff Wed which in a way cost us the title? How has that been evened out since? There should be no need for this. There should be a use of technology and that would out an end to all this bull shit. |
Brisbane villa
said:
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... people do care-even here in australia where "soccer" ia generally lambasted as a sport played by cheats and divers, the henry handball is massive news and even the most ardent football hater has seen the footage on the news and has seen that it is a disgrace to sport in general- also the comparison with maradonas hand of god is inaccurate- if you remember that game you will remember that after his hand of god goal maradona then went on to score one of the most individualy brilliant goals in the history of televised football - henry didnt he just hung on with the rest of the french team till the ref let them off the hook. I always liked henry but will never forgive him for this and i think history will treat him in the same way as it treats maradona-great player but a total cheating scumbag. As for fifa-they have an opportunity here to do the right thing and prove all the cynics in the world wrong- we all know they wont and we all suspect what there real agenda is |
kingfisher villa
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... fifa have rejected irelands call for a replay  oh well villa to beat burnley 3.1 |
davidc
said:
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... AK27 - but thats the thing. Video evidence does not stop cheating. It just makes the cheats smarter. Cheating still goes on in American football, rugby, cricket etc. All sports that do use video evidence. re: Keane / Georgia thing. You could argue if you hadn't got the dodgy decision against Georgia, you wouldn't have even made the play-offs as confidence was tumbling and Trapp was under stick from the crowd, players booed off etc? I do remember the Old Trafford / Steve Bruce extra-time thing well. Can you tell me exactly how technology would prevent that again please? We have the 4th linesman now timekeeping and holding the board up. Has that stopped the controvesy? No, of course not. My fear of video evidence is two-fold: 1. It can be misleading (ie it genuinely does only take the slightest of touches to knock a forward off his feet in the box sometimes. And sometimes when you watch the replays of that its not clear). 2. Sport is sport in all its glorious unpredicatability. The seemingly randomness and the fact participants (players, referees, linesmen) make mistakes, is its true beauty. Wouldn't it be boring if the 'best' side ALWAYS won? |
Stuart Kinane
said:
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... Nice sentiments Jerry but as another Irishman, I can tell you, it doesn't provide much consolation. The fact is we were cheated out of it completely. You could argue it began with the way Fifa changed the seeding rule at the last minute to ensure the big boys didn't get each other. And now this morning, they issue a very succinct no in response to our request for a replay. I think Henry should have the guts to stand up and take responsibility. This whole thing about "uh, oui, I handled it but it is not my responsibility to call it, it is the refs". What a crock of s**t! Be a man and take responsibility for things. As for Pancho, I completely disagree with you. Paolo Di Canio did something extraordinary a few years ago and ended up winning a Fifa Fair Play Award. There is a first for evreything and I do believe certain professionals would have stood up and admitted it to the ref, given the importance of this game. Henry could begin to redeem himself by getting firmly behind a replay but I really doubt he will. |
Adrian Kilgallon
said:
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... davidc we would have made the play offs without that goal have no doubt about that. The cheats would be doing very well to out smart a tv camera. All you would need is the option to question 2 referee's decisions during the game. With the amount of money now on the line its time for this sport to catch itself on a bit. One poor decision can cost a man his job or a club its place in the top flight. I really don't see your objection to this? So you like the way a team can be cheated by poor mistakes? Maybe it will take Villa losing out on a CL spot because of a dodgy pen so that you can feel the hurt that it brings before you understand. I brought up the extra time at Old trafford as a rebuke to your statement of things balancing themselves out and not in relation to technology. Things do not balance themselves out for the smaller teams have no doubt about that. The way it is now the lack of use of technology only helps the bigger teams who already have an advantage over smaller teams. Time to level the playing field. Refs are only human and are often easily swayed to make wrong decisions to help bigger teams and so not to bring the wrath from bigger managers and press. They may not mean to do this but they do this non the less. |
davidc
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... AK27 - see where you're coming from. But if you really want to level the playing field, there are far more effective ways of doing it than introducing video refs (eg salary caps, sharing of gate receipts more equally, sharing of tv revenue from CL etc etc etc). Video refs won't level the playing field at all. If there was any chance of that really happening, then the likes of Fergie and Wenger and Benitez would never come out in favour of technology at all. |
Fowleryeah?
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... It's not about 'not telling the ref' surely anyway, it's about the deliberate handball.. Just so I know, is that right? We can hardly say anything if it is the prior, as no players would say anything. |
Paul Gough
said:
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... As an Irishman who went to Croke Park for the fist leg and watched the second on TV I would like to make a couple of points. I am just so disapointed Ireland are out. Best team lost I think even the French supporters agree. I think to cut cheating out of football will require a change of mindset. It will need to come from the players though. Imagine what the reaction would be if Henry said he will not play for France in the summer because of the handball. What would be the reaction from all soccer supporters? I, and I think other Irish supporters would admire the gesture. By the way never use the phrase "Luck of the Irish" again. |
Barry Martin
said:
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... I like most real football supporters liked Thierry Henry.For years in the premiership we got to see a stunning footballer and a gentlman play the game in the spirit it should be played. I still remember an incident when he pulled 2 squabbling players apart before there was a punch up , i think it was against blackburn rovers and also when Walcott scored his first goal for Arsenal and seemed to embarassed to celebrate so Thierry lifted his hand for him, or on a few different occasions he would mess and joke around with mascots in the tunnel before the game giving them memories to treasure for the rest of their days. All great things to see and have stayed in my mind, until now. Now im afraid i wont think of him that way, ill think of him the way i think of Zidane, for a headbutt and not for the goal in the champions league final, like Cantona for the karate kick instead of his goal against Sunderland and like Maradona for HIS hand of god and not for simply being possibly the greatest player to have played the game. As you can imagine from my user name im Irish and i'll be honest and say i thought we'd be beaten comfortably by the French over the 2 legs but that just wasn't the case. And i think people need to remember that we still could have gone out on penalties, but thanks to Thierry we couldn't even be be knocked out in an honourable fashion. And really thats what really matters. |
GPalmer
said:
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... Well said, but to me sport lost its reputation for honesty a long time ago. It reflects the morals at work in mainstream society, and mainstream society is pretty cynical & dishonest at the best of times. People mistake winning for being the best and the "Win at all costs" attitude is actually admired. The best team doesn't always win, and more & more footy seems to be a case of the best cheats edging it. Frankly I'd rather lose than win by cheating. As an Englishman, it still grates on me that Lineker cheated against Cameroon to get us the penalties to see us through back in 1990. That's heresy and no doubt someone will be outraged at the mere mention of it because the noble memory of Gazza's tears and the defeat on penalties to Germany in the semis has erased all thought of it, but it's true nonetheless. |
86villain
said:
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... Pancho i disagree with your comment - There is not a single player registered to play professional football anywhere in the world that would have said "sorry ref I handballed it - don't allow the goal" I remember a few years ago a penalty being given i think it was to Liverpool and Robbie Fowler but my meory is possibly a little off, but Fowler said to the ref he had made a mistake and it was not a penaly, the ref did not back down and still gavfe the penalty and Fowler purposely put it wide. As i say it may not have been Fowler but i think it was.. Some ppayer do have morals. |
PaulMcGrathsGoneAWOL
said:
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... Most of us feel bad for what happened on Weds night, because we love the underdog have a real disliking of the people running FIFA and UEFA and as Villa fans some of our best players of the last twenty years were Irish. I feel really sorry for Dunne, but my main concern is if he's going to be fit enough to play on saturday, mentally and physically. I think he will be. The logistics of a reply make it impossible as the draw is in a few weeks and when would they fit it in? Anyway you dont need to replay the whole game, just have a shoot out. Thats what Ireland wants, Trappatoni said it himself he'd rather of gone out in a shoot out, so just get the teams together and have a shootout. Problem solved. |
Barry Martin
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... 86villa i think the match your on about was liverpool v arsenal fowler did take the penalty it was a weak one and seaman saved it but another liverpool player followed up and scored the rebound. And also just this season Arshavin was 'brought down' in the box and he too signalled to the ref that it wasnt a penalty but van persie took it and scored |
Rios.Jockstrap
said:
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... Point should now be, when will FIFA bring in Video playback to help the officials? The technology is there, use it. Or is it because the game is so corrupt it will only make it harder for the fixers to fix results. This certainly never happened the other night, but i can think of quite a few past World Cups where there has been a large suspicion of it, and some of it quite blatent when its come to England. The other problem is the Dirty money that now is flooding into the Game. We cant prove anything, but look at the mysterious backers of Small Heath, did Abramovich get all his money from gas and oil, and what about the criminal whom ran Man city? And i bet thats only the tip of a large iceberg. Laundering apart, that amount of Money opens up other avenues on how to make a quick killing. The game as moved on financially since Grobellor (sorry for the spelling) hit the headlines, but suspicions then were that he was just the unlucky one who got caught. Who says Refs have never been visited with the threat of something very nasty happening to them or there families?. Its happened abroad, and is happening abroad, and abroad is not as half as attractive as the English premier league! By the way, Italy had a similar period of vast investment from TV and dodgy mysterious backers not so long back, which ended with trials involving match fixing and bribes..... We all suspect it goes on, but why do we suspect it goes on? Where ever there is big Money, there is also corruption, and Video technology will at least stamp a lot of it out on the pitch, and make the sport look cleaner. The premier is all for it, Players and Mangers and supporters are for it, and the one bunch of morons whom are against it, are whom exactly? FIFA... I wonder why? Wait......, i know, just look at that corrupt t**t from Trinidad, and the moron from outer space Sepp Blatter. What fine moral upstanding people they are lol. Need i say more? |
Car Frost
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... Footballers are bred to win at any cost, it's what they do. Sadly for Henry that cost is reputation and loss of what would be legendary status. Sky sports news are discussing the idea of the ref asking a player if he cheated, if he lies to the ref a 6 game ban or worse could be imposed. Personally I can't see this working, take Henry for example it's a lose lose situation for him does he tell the truth and risk France going out or lie and get banned from playing in world cup to get his country through? GGGG - spot on, the problem starts with society not on the pitch, I fuc*ing hate politicians ( well most of them ) and they set these standards. If you can't lie, cheat or swindle your never going to make it as a politician. |
Car Frost
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... Cricket - thats what I meant to add. Have you watched video replays in cricket, it's ridiculous. Any SLIGHTLY dubious decision to be make and the umpire points at that big screen over and over again, it's a farce it really is, each game would end up with 20 minutes injury time ... |
Alex Glynn
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...glynnder - Maradona is more powerful than God in Argentina so I think its fair to say that he has been 'forgiven' there. Also his standing as one of the greatest players of all time generally doesn't come with an asterix beside it. I'm sure may english haven't forgiven him as dont think the irish will forget Henry, but outside their own countries - who will care! yeah, that's completely true. IT's funny though, I know two argentinians who live here and they both agree that Maradona is currently Argentinian football's biggest flaw and to quote one of them "and he was a cheat when he played too". Then you look at Argentina and they're bending down to kiss his feet. It's weird how being emersed in another culture can completely alter your viewpoints. [they're both devout argentina followers too] x |
croni
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... nice piece there are so many factors as to why this has received so much coverage, but the main factors are: 1)apart from the two players being off side, it wasn't just a hand ball, he made two attempts to control the ball with his hand (the whole instinctual argument or people claiming it wasn't premeditated doesn't stand up in this case. you might argue that his first attempt may have been instinctual, but surely not the second attempt)he clearly realised that his first attempt was not sufficient to keep the ball in play. it was more than a handball, it was a different sport. 2) the perpetrator, captain of france and a player who has a carefully constructed an image of a sporting gentleman (which helps when you want multimillion pound sponsorship deals)he's a cheat and clearly is a crap captain 3) the nature of the play-off, it was for a place in the world cup. Ireland were the better team over the two legs, which increases the sense of injustice 4) it calls into question the integrity of the sport. what message does it send across the world and to children in general? that if you cheat you will be rewarded. video evidence has to be introduced immediately |
jerry
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...Churchill: I generally like your stuff, but this is Grade A, 24 Carat, top of the tree, BUNKAM Pancho, you need to come off the fence mate. Did you like it or not? Some have made the point that it’s a little over the top. You could have said ‘style over substance again, churchill’ and, to a degree, I would have to plead guilty. But I need to be quite clear about the sentiments expressed in the article. I firmly hold to the view that a man’s honour is the most important thing he possesses. I have to disagree with posters who say, “If gabby had done this for the Villa, in order to win an important match, you’d be overjoyed.” Well, in truth, I wouldn’t. I’d be gutted. To win by cheating is no victory. All’s fair in love and war. Absolutely. But not in sport. In sport a man’s honour is on display and we need to teach our kids the importance of this. I’m disappointed that many here don’t hold with that. Don’t tell me that winning is all that counts because if that were true most stadiums would be empty and they’re not. I hope Damian will repost kohoutek’s brilliant post on this subject as a reminder about the things that fill the heart of a joe-sixpack footy fan. If football is not about winning, what is it about? It’s about glory. |
Adrian Kilgallon
said:
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... Just seen Platini on TV saying he wants to introduce extra officials and not technology as the human element is safer/better. Does he not understand that it won't be a robot sitting in a studio watching the replays? It will be a human. Or maybe it is harder to pay off/ force decisions if technology is being used. Seriously that is the only reason i can see why he wouldn't want to bring in the use of technology. That would seriously effect FIFA's influence on the out come of games. |
jerry
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...... A good read. Very funny. |
Rattus NorVillicus
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... churchill: Honour ? really, honour ? Millions are at stake. people's careers the future of their families, the education of their children in the case of some African players the future of whole villages are at stake The only dishonourable man in the scenario is the Irish captain Robbie Keane. He could have diffused all this nonsense right after the game by stating the truth that he would have done exactly the same as Henry given the chance. Honour ? Your namesake, speaking of the Yanks, said he would do a deal with the devil if it was in Britain's interest. Honour ? BALDERDASH ! |
Paul Gough
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... I am still against video refs. The problem is the culture of cheating. Making it harder to get away with cheating will not change the attitude. The answer is to make it part of the mentality of the players not to cheat. Like it is in golf. If you cheat you have no honour type of attitude. |
StickyAV
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... Sorry Churchill, big fan of your stuff but style over substance  Players are out to win matches. Henry didn't cheat. He did what any one of us would have done. He wanted to win so bad, he wanted to take his team to the world cup so much, that his instincts got the better of him. And in the split second after the ball hit his hand, he instinctively touched it again to pull it in to control. Like players do every game, to stop someone going through on goal, to stop a ball crossing the line, etc etc. Instinct takes control, you cannot do anything about it. Anyone who has ever played football will know. It happens. The ball goes past, you reach out and touch it, because you want it that bad. Keane got pulled up for 2 hand balls in the game. Had he not been pulled up on them, would he have stopped play? No. So because henry didn't get blown for it, and he played on resulting in a goal, he is worse than everyone else? No. As Henry said, look at the FA cup final that he played in where they lost against Liverpool, even though he scored but the ball was stopped by a defender on the line. It happens. Ireland should have finished the game. Duff had THE chance. Others had chances. They should stop looking at that moment, and look at the 180 minutes before. They should be looking why in the dying minutes the ball was allowed to bounce in the 6 yard box, why henry was unmarked, why the keeper didn't come and collect. I'm sorry guys, it's nothing personal, but I would rather France go to the World Cup. Why? Because Anelka is in the form of his life and I want him there. I want Henry there. Gallas, Evra, Benzema. Etc etc. I want them all there. From Ireland I would like Dunne there and that's about it. Like I said, nothing personal, but I am a fan of football and the world cup is the big stage for the best players, of which france have more. To finish, in a probably biast opinion, backed up with evidence, if you want to see cheating look to the hand of god. A decision made not on instinct, but of sound mind. i can't reach that ball, so i am going to jump up and punch it in to the net. That's cheating. |
Gregdavillain1887
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... Sticky Av Henry didn't cheat. Please explain what you regard as deliberate handball as? I think its actually an automatic red-card offense. He did what any one of us would have done. Please speak for yourself and not the rest of us. As for the rest of your post fair enough your entitled to your opinion and im happy to read all opionions. I can can understand on paper yes the french are a team full of superstars, but if they are so exciting to watch and are such a good team why did they have to go through a playoff??? why were they outplayed in 2 games by Ireland and needing a deflected goal (it happens i can accept that) and a cheated goal in extra time to pull ahead when they hardly deserved it. I think you'll only be watching them in the first round because as a team they are not all they are crackd up to be. |
StickyAV
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... Greg, Regarding why he didn't cheat, i explained it in my post. It's instinct mate. I do not think for a second he made a decision to decieve everyone. His instincts made a decision for him. Afterwards he was almost gutted. He looked shocked. He sat with Dunna after the game. In his talk with Sky he said, yes it was hand ball, but the ref didn't see it. Regarding we would do the same. If you had just secured qualification for your country, with millions watching, with 80000 people screaming in your home stadium, i WOULD LOVE to see you turn around and say, yeah that kind of came of my hand. No Goal. You wouldn't simple as. Regarding France go through, as a team they are not great. The manager is shocking. But at the world cup i want individuals to have moments of genius. France have the players. I sat in a bar, with Irish friends and cheered your boys on. But after the game, i thought France going through was probably best, and I told them all that. We all root for the underdog. But in the end, this is the World Cup. |
StickyAV
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... I forgot to say Greg, it is the referee's duty to marshall the game, not the players. |
jerry
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...Honour ? really, honour ? BALDERDASH ! Pancho, you have one view, I have another. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. That's an honourable position. |
Car Frost
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... Player reactions coming in now, nothing suprising. Henry says Of course the fairest solution would be to replay the game but it is not in my control. Roy Keanes thoughts .. ( look away if your Irish .. ) They can complain all they want but France are going to the World Cup - get over it. |
afvcbob
said:
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... All this talk about the France v Ireland game - have you all forgotten we've got an important game to discuss and hopefully win tomorrow 2 nil Villa (Gabby and Collins) - So lets change the conversation |
Steve Badger
said:
 |
...Chelsea v Wolves DavePundit, you've got to laugh  |
StickyAV
said:
|
... My final word on the matter is anyone who doesn't understand instinctive handballs has never played football for a serious amount of time. Anyone who thinks henry had the time, from when he realised he couldn't control it, to when it hit his arm, to decide to cheat, is mental. Instincts. |
Damian
said:
 |
... it is nick .. but we are all football fans and unless you want me knocking the new club site facelift .. i'm afraid this is it today. sorry will be more fun tomorrow. i promise |
Rattus NorVillicus
said:
|
...Pancho, you have one view, I have another. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. That's an honourable position. Up The Villa !! |
Damian
said:
|
... i love roy keane .. thought what he said on that video was superb http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/h...370327.stm |
jerry
said:
|
..... i'm afraid this is it today. sorry Thanks, boss. |
Rattus NorVillicus
said:
|
...churchill said: That's funny. Anyway Churchill - full marks for putting something up for us to argue about. UTV !!!! |
matthew halsey
said:
 |
... Roy is right, who cares about Irelands fate. Oh the Irish do. So again who cares about ireland. |
matthew halsey
said:
|
... On the pitch there’s an implied, but fairly strict, rule: ‘the only way to get anything out of this is to play by the rules’ and, generally, this rule is observed - there is a taboo against breaking it. Henry diminished himself and his country last night. France’s participation in the World Cup has now become meaningless. They could go ahead and win it and the only consequence would be that they would be reviled for it. WHAT ABSOLUTE BOLLOX!! 1. PLAYERS COUDNT GIVE A SHITE WHO IN THEIR TEAM CHEATED AS LONG AS THEY WIN. 2.THIS WILL BE FORGOTTEN BY THE TIME WC IS HERE. IF FRANCE WIN NO ONE WILL HARP ON ABOUT ONE HANDBALL. |
tubbydunne
said:
 |
... I am amazed at how many people Henry was a hero to. I know he is a brilliant footballer but I always thought that if you didn't support the club he plays for you could only detest the guy. His smug goal celebrations are really sickening, its not spontaneous joy at scoring its a little routine to show everyone how cool he is and really rubbing it in to the opposition. Every time he does an interview its in hushed tones with that French accent giving the impression he is saying something profound when its just the same cliched ridden drivel as every other footballer. He never misses an opportunity to make himself look saintly in front of the camera, case in point being when he went and sat beside Richard Dunne at the final whistle Wednesday. He knew the cameras would zoom in and he put on his little sad face and consoled Dunne. It was like Ya I did wrong but I am so sorry and am such a great guy. I would have respect for someone that said I handled the ball and said ya I handled it I would do anything to win. That's not Henry's style he is a two faced toad and after this incident I hope all these people that think he walks on air accept this. Va va voom indeed. |
Adrian Kilgallon
said:
|
... StickyAV i have played fotball all my life. The frst was insticnt the second wasn't. No way was his second hand movement just instinct. |
Greg
said:
|
... Sticky Av You make me laugh  your perception is so nieve. Poor Henry he was forced into cheating, the poor guy didnt know he was handballing it, his instincts took over and he lost self control, lets say a moment of temorary insanity in which this time he should be excused of anything, because as anyone knows who ever played football you have the right to break the rules and cheat in the heat of the moment. Hahah your argument is very weak and if you are in fact not trying to rise people and actually believe he didnt handball to gain an advantage, well as i said your perception is nieve. I cant argue with you about players on paper france have some mouthwatering footballers. But what good are they if they dont have the heart to win. You can have all the skill in the world but if you dont have the desire its no good to you. At least ireland have desire, we certainly lack quality in areas around the park but we made france look like boys. So im sure your happy you've a squad of french individuals goin to the world cup, but watch on as they do nothing. And if Henry didnt do it intentionally why is he coming out and saying Ireland deserve a replay?? Its his conscience mate. He's said it today himself. If you had actually watched the match or seen the incident (which i am now doubting as ive read your feeble comments and i dont think any1 is really that nieve) you can tell through body language he's done it on purpose, you can see him looking at the ball, he brings an open palm to it twice, in his celebration he tells anelka and gallas, gallas tries not to celebrate walking back to his position. In the interview henry starts blinking profusly when asked was it on purpose, a sure sign of a lie. His conscience is catching up with him and he's starating to realise that cheating your team to a world cup has come at an awful price. His credabilty around the world has been tarnished and also that of Frances. I will wish them luck they will need it. |
matthew halsey
said:
|
... Sticky Take no notice of these clowns, talking utter bollox. These idiots would be pissing themselves laughing if gabby did it in the world cup finals to knock out Argentina. Talking about moral code and knowing the game cos they played for dog and duck on a sunday. Even playing at semi-pro or higher doesnt make you any better at seeing an incident for what it is. |
Irish-Villan
said:
 |
... Still pissed off with the hand of Henry but 3 pts for Villa tomorrow will go some way to erasing the pain. |
Greg
said:
|
... matt26may1982 the only clown in here is you mate. The only idiot in here is you mate. And the only one who will be pissing themselves is you mate. Now put the rubber blanket down and save mommy from having to iron ur bed dry in the morning, theres a good lad. |
sean
said:
 |
... as an irish fan and a fan of football, i was both shocked and disgusted about the events the other night. yes we were cheated by henry; but we were even more cheated by FIFA and UEFA who decided to seed the play-offs because the bigger nations were struggling. equality in football has withered. it was the manner of henry's goal celebration that most annoyed me. the way in which he was overjoyed after blatant cheating on his behalf hurt me. we just have to take it on the chin but we won't be there in 2010 and the injustice is, france will. however as the french would say: c'est la vie! |
sean
said:
|
... come on villa tomorrow. there's not been that much talk really about this burnley game and i, for one, after ireland, have been really dispondent about football in general. however i hope dunne has a blinder and we move into 4th! utv. |
Greg
said:
|
... ya ur right seano, must say it getting boring now though, cant wait for the burnley match 2morrow, hopefully the villains will put it right for us tomorrow |
Michael
said:
 |
... damian- i loved that roy keane press conference aswell, what he said was spot on. i was always a fan of him as a player but that made me a fan of him as a manager aswell. we need more people to eb outspoken like him in the game. was true what he said about the ireland penalty against georgia, so lets replay that game and then replay the france game. was disapointed in henry but players have done a lot worse. in my book hand ball is part of the game and as old as football itself, id prefer a player to hand ball than dive. but if he does feel so strongly about a re-play, if a replay wont happen then he should retire from international football until after the world cup, or just shut up about it. |
James
said:
 |
... Churchill, I am very concerned. Now, you know I love your work. You know I am a style over substance man, but I'm gonna have to sit on Pancho's fence here. Young is a cheat. I forgive him. And therefore I forgive Henry. It is a game. Being the best at a game is always about pushing the boundaries of the rules. |
Rattus NorVillicus
said:
|
... Roy Keane is a mad dog. He's practically foaming at the mouth. He should be put down. He'll get the boot from Ipswich soon enough and in a couple of years he'll be as quotable as Paul Ince or Brian Robson. Would you like him as your next door neighbour ? Me neither. |
Steve Badger
said:
|
... Tubby, I am amazed at how many people Henry was a hero to. I know he is a brilliant footballer but I always thought that if you didn't support the club he plays for you could only detest the guy. That's rubbish mate. A class footballer is just that. And I've seen Pele and Cruyff at VP. A player of his calibre is one in a generation if you're lucky, simple, imo. Whilst I suspect you're right in that a lot of things he's done have been pre-conceived, I suspect that just makes him a class above Beckham, who wasn't a patch on Henry, imo. Anyway, onto the Villa. That's much more important to me |
cockneyvillan
said:
 |
... Total different subject here, going back to earlier in the week when people voted for ther team formation & players for each position and the 4-2-3-1 which i choose aswell was the formation chosen. Now i really like the look of the team set out like that and it was all based around when downing returns. But is that the way most people think that mon will set the team out? For me maybe & hopefully but if he was couldn't he already line up with this formation...... ---------------------------freidel---------------------- ----young------------collins------dunne---------warnock-- ---------------------cocker-------petrov----------------- ---gabby------------------milner---------------young---- --------------------------carew------------------------- Its hard to tell sometimes in games because we seem to change round quite alot, so we possibly have played like this at some point, but i would like to see us line up like this especially when downing is fit!! any thoughts? |
matthew halsey
said:
|
... gregdavillain, Shhh now take your pills son, i mean your e pills little kid. When you grow up and face the facts you will start to learn a little about life. You seem to want to get personal, must have touched a nerve, guilty feeling that you infact are an idiot and a clown, certainly a dickhead. Perhaps you are a potato hider too. |
Adrian Kilgallon
said:
|
... Anyone who thinks that Roy Keane is anything other then an absolute scum bag is a complete t**t and would really want to take a look at who they respect in this world. You probably like Joey Barton as well. |
Ammar
said:
 |
...Honour ? Could not be more true. Its all about winning what ever way you can achive it. If Villa were to get 5 penalty decisions this season were any of our players dived and it meant us getting in champions league would we really care ? Sport is all about self interest and not moral interest. That competive nature of a game will push players & managers to push the rules to the limit. If there is anyone to blame it’s not the players but the people who create the rules and are stuck in a time warp and insisting on not bringing in modern technology. It’s funny because watchning it on T.V we saw a replay of the incident in the space of seconds. So it’s not as if the flow of the game would be disrupted. Onto Villa Tommorows game to be honest is hard to predict. It reckon it will be dependent on 2 things :- . Team selection. Lets hope we select our strongest eleven and players playing in there strongest positions. Fingers crossed. . We don’t concede that early goal. |
Steve Badger
said:
|
...Anyone who thinks that Roy Keane is anything other then an absolute scum bag is a complete t**t Haa, I'm a t**t then 100% winner, who I was begging Ellis to buy for £10 mill at the time. Of course, it didn't happen. What's he done to deserve this disdain? I've obviously missed something, but if it was ripping the FAI to pieces, I suspect thet deserved it. |
Adrian Kilgallon
said:
|
... Badger the man walked out on his country and has taken every opperunity to have a pop since. I could go into far more things about that scum bag but i couldn't be bothered. But he really isn't too far off what Joey Barton is and he should not be put up there as a role model or respected for the way he has conducted himself in the game. Great player yes. Outside of that a phycopathic scum bag and one i really hope gets what he deserves. I really hate nobody more on this planet then that man. |
jerry
said:
|
...Roy Keane is a mad dog. He's practically foaming at the mouth. Pancho, we finally found something we can agree on. |
Steve Badger
said:
|
...Badger the man walked out on his country and has taken every opperunity to have a pop since. I could go into far more things about that scum bag but i couldn't be bothered. But he really isn't too far off what Joey Barton is and he should not be put up there as a role model or respected for the way he has conducted himself in the game. Great player yes. Outside of that a phycopathic scum bag and one i really hope gets what he deserves. I really hate nobody more on this planet then that man. I've always seen him as a geezer who won't accept mediocrity, myself. Demonstrated by his rant at the Wolves nobody (who absolutely will not be remembered for anything, imo). Headbangers are sometimes OK, imo. You want to know what we're missing? Bellamy. As much as it hurts to say it. I don't give two flying proverbials what anyone says. He would make us top flight, imo. |
Greg
said:
|
... come on he was thrown out of the squad by mick mccarthy, who ridiculed his captain in front of the squad by sayin he feigns injurys to get out of friendlies, anyway thats very debatable. He was foaming at the mouth in that interview i thoughthe was going to burst at one stage. He's achieved much more in the game as joey Barton. Anyway cantona saw lots more red than keane so is he a joey barton too? methinks not. matt26may1982 good one, im stumped there, u didnt go an start it by callin every1 in here clowns so since i was in here too, i yeas took it personal and thought id put a little upstart like you into his place. Did mommy read you a bed time story before you went to sleepies. Night love x x x |
Adrian Kilgallon
said:
|
... Greg he had quit the squad before that had hapened(many seem to ignore that). He was looking for a way out and he found it and he managed to drag McCarthy down with it. He is a traitor and always will be in my eyes. He is beggining to show himself up for what he really is now as a person. Its about time people see that man for what he really is. Scum. Badger i rate Bellamy very highly and he would make a big differance to us. |
Greg
said:
|
... ak47 i remember things a bit differently. Seemingly Keane was trying to the raise the standards for the irish players, he had to try and ruffle a few feathers to get results. Seemingly the training pitch was a joke and their container full of gear and equipment hadnt arrived, the list went on and on. He said he felt it was an amatuerish set up and yes he did turn his back. But he came back after the uproar in the country. Only to be booted out by mick mcarthy the 2nd time. I remember it as a farce and i remeber blaaming mick for not being able to deal with the situation, he was happy to settle for 2nd best. Anyway the opinion is divided on keane, maybe he is right and the FAI do need a kick up in the arse. I rate stephen ireland as more of a traitor , i can remember keane winning games for us almost singlhandidly for us, and although he left under a shroud i wont be ungratefull for that |
Rattus NorVillicus
said:
|
... It's here - the day of The Villa has returned. Up with a new blog Damo, the day is already old ! |
VillaNick
said:
 |
... Damien, you're a slacker, get out of bed and write something, Aston Villa's 1st team are playing a game of association footballl today! |
Greg Hill
said:
 |
... Before it closes just to add this was a first rate and relevant post. All of you are who don’t agree with it – and it’s staggering how many don’t – are lesser people for it. When a ball came off me for a throw, corner, whatever, I always handed it back. No need for anyone to change their opinion about the talent of Maradona/Henry et al. Fabulous footballers, of course, but diminished as people. |
Rattus NorVillicus
said:
|
...Greg1981 said: Rot of the highest order I rest my case m'Lud |
GPalmer
said:
|
... Harping on here, but I saw the Keane interview about the Irish last night - bloody briliant press conference! He was simmering just below boiling point all the way through, nearly abused some hack for not turning off his mobile at one point, and spoke an awful lot of refreshing sense. Damn shame we haven't got more people like him in the game who say what they think instead of spouting blandola clichés. Saw Arsene Wenger asked about the Henry handball too, but apparently he didn't see it.. |
matthew halsey
said:
|
... Gregdavillain Im amazed you can stay up that late kid, probably cos you were sick from all the bile you spew out on here lol. You seem infatuated with my sleeping habits, not only are you a dick head you must love the dick aswell lol. And on mentioning mothers, please tell her to stop calling me i told her it was just a one off. Hoe. |
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