Written by Luke Thursday, 22 July 2010 13:46
Martin O’Neill has revealed that James Milner wants to leave and play for Manchester City, at the same time, earning himself a silly amount of money for keeping the bench warm.
Having played with Nigel Reo-Coker, Habib Beye and Luke Young this year, he has seen how lucrative going to a bigger club can be and he wants to cash in.
In all seriousness, who wouldn’t want to have their salary doubled? Milner is like anyone that you and I know – they’d always go to work for double the money doing the same job.
I don’t begrudge him – he’s said he wants to leave and he knows that he’ll be filthy rich if he signs. At 24 he can, and probably will, win things at Citeh. They are buying a lot of talent – à la Chelsea of 2003 – and I expect them to not only win things but also to challenge for the league. So why wouldn’t any of our players want that?
I sincerely hope we get a good price for him. Citeh don’t want to pay £30m but why would we let him go to a direct competitor for a low price. Given how O'Neill wastes money we need all the cash we can get.
Updates
Martin O'Neill, July 22nd 2010
I had a conversation with James before the World Cup and he intimated that he'd like to go. I'd imagine things will be resolved in the foreseeable future. City made an offer but it did not meet our valuation. I'm sure matters will be resolved soon. James is back next week having had extended holiday.
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.vogra
said:
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... Well well James you trecherous cnut, you want to leave us do you?...want more money?...more fame?? ... well fcuk off then.. lets screw City for as much as we can get for this over-rated wannabe.. You can join that other money grabbing Pr*ck Barry.. |
Warren
said:
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... Well, we ain't any better of then if Milner goes... All smells of Doug Ellis's time in charge, sell your best assets just as they come good!! Same old crap!!! So much for bright future... Slap in the face for those who wanted to believe this to be different!!! |
DAJ
said:
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...This will be O'Neill's final season in charge at Villa. Mark my words. This time i agree with you!  |
Charlie
said:
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... It really does make you wonder what is the point in trying to progress, when as soon as you start getting near all your best players get taken off you. Thank god Ashley Young had an average season otherwise he'd have been pinched as well. We must get cash plus Stephen Ireland. Say 10-15mil and him and I'd say we had the best deal |
Craigy1874
said:
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... Just want to add my best wishes for james milner. Now f**k of you ungrateful p***k and don't come back. |
mikey18
said:
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... I'm dissappointed in Milner, before MoN he'd never had the same manager for longer than a season. We get him settled and bring him on and he f**ks off, its frustrating! Apparently we offered him a new contract which would of made him villa highest EVER earner, but he turned it down. So it's not just money motivated, its also about ambition and he feel villa don't have any! |
Damian
said:
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... vivavilla you are not wrong. the football not getting better doesn't just mean we don't really move forward - it means that ambitious players dont want to come to us either, unless we pay them over the odds - habib beye is a perfect example - but when a player comes only for the cash - then you're buggered from day one .vogra it isn't nice - but what goes around comes around and people tend to forget the impact o'neill can have on a player. cards on the table - how good a season did barry just have at city; not a great one and he'll be lucky to play next season - o'neill pushed him up to that level and the same can be said for milner - when he came to us he was a hard working average winger and only through a lot of games has he been noticed by the england coach and even then - he plays him in a position that o'neill doesn't - left wing. from day one we have always known that o'neill takes average players and makes them good and good players and makes them better - it isn't because of the football it is because they are always playing and they are always running. milner has seasons ahead of him and like Luke says, will likely win things at Manchester City - pity as had he stayed and earned his £3.5mn a season with us, he'd still be a multi-millionaire and he might also feel a little better about himself, but then that is me trying to suggest that footballers have a conscience and they dont |
Kenny AVFC
said:
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... If Milner wants out and City won't pay 30m for him get some players off them! Don't keep a player who doesn't want to be there! Joe Hart 10m, Shaun Wright-Phillips 5m, Stephen Ireland 7m and Micah Richards 8m! Four players who can't get in there 1st team and would really add some quality to our team! Don't you think players would be better than money? |
DAJ
said:
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...surley £15 million plus stephen ireland would do I dont think Martins interested in Ireland. I think he sees a role for Ashley in that central area, though i could be wrong! Ireland can only play in one position and his defensive play is not brill. I think Martin likes players to be adaptable, which i guess rules him out on that alone. I like Ireland, but i also think Ashley Young will be a revelation playing inside this season. |
DanWilson82
said:
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... Garteh Barry will now be out on his massive ass, relegated to bench warming, and thats exactly the position Milner will be in next season when City get champions league and can bring in any midfielder they want. Why is it these guys fail to see what every sane person can? I thought Milner was about the football not the money or the fame, I guess you just don't know anyone really. |
Bosnich13
said:
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... well he wants to go so we are right to sell him and at least we have made a decision so it shouldn't be drawn out all summer giving us time to get replacements before the season kicks off...its indicative of all the money madness in football these days and unfortunately the players and their agents are more powerful than ever before...i hope he goes on to succeed because i like Milner, he seems a decent lad despite his desire to leave...i think he'll be much more than a bench-warmer for them, he is determined, works hard and has ennough about him to be a top player for City...we must get as much as possible 24/30M would be a good v price (David Villa while older cost 35, fabregas is touted at 35/40)...i would think that the much talked about swap with us taking one or players plus cash could well be a reality - we know the players mentioned so i won't re-iterate...so while i'm genuinely sorry to see him go, we will replace him and move forward...UTV |
Gwatkins
said:
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... Dont take it too personally people. I actually believe this is a good thing for Villa and believe we can only move forward if we sell Milner. I was actually starting to worry that we wouldnt keep him. It will ultimately prove to be the wrong decision for his career, but i dont blame him for wanting to move. |
Damian
said:
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... Gwatkins i agree - if we can get £30mn it is good business and you dont get the offer of £30mn very often and I suspect that it will soon be over. doug ellis can do a lot with that type of money. sorry randy lenrer |
no10
said:
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... i cant see him going just for the money.its got to be ambition and the chance to play with world class players not the likes of heskey and a nut job of a manager. |
Bosnich13
said:
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... DAJ wrote: but i also think Ashley Young will be a revelation playing inside this season Couldnt agree more, i think Ash is set for a blistering season this year, i just think he's ready to step up and take the mantle as the teams most important 'go-to' player - he's matured a lot these past 2/3 seasons and he is coming across really well in any interviews i've seen of him, seems full of confidence and just seems ready for it all... |
VillaDude
said:
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... It's true, if you look at some of the rejects that MON has got in our squad (Shorey, Heskey, Beye) and his lack of any transfer movement this summer, would you blame a player to play with world class players and 100k a week... MON is partly to blame for this, but the biggest worry is what he does with 25-30m?! |
JimVilla
said:
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... Dan Bowie: I read somewhere that Stephen Ireland doesn't want to join Villa unfortunately...apparently we have tried but he wants to stay and fight for his place. Unfortunately they cant say "tough s**t" or they probably would (the classless chav c**ts). Footballers don't like being make-weights , they consider it an insult. Just like we consider it an insult when a spotty little c**t that was on the verge of medicrity until we breathed life into his career and paid him millions along the way turns round after an extended holiday and f**ks us all up the proverbial dirt box. I'm not bitter but if anyone's got the day off, meet me at the Esso in Alderly Edge and bring some empty bottles. I've got an idea. |
villarich
said:
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... DAJ, Ashley Young can't tackle so I don't see him filling Milners place in midfield. We need someone biggger and stronger, you can't have a lightweight like Young hopping around the midfield area after ever tackle, we need someone who will get stuck in. Up the Villa!!! |
Damian
said:
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... JimVilla your over use of the c word is going to get your comments moderated. please - it is a family show however, i can not confirm that stephen ireland doesn't want to play kick and rush football next season |
DAJ
said:
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... Im getting a Gareth Barry feeling Hes adaptable, still has affection for the club, and there was a story not long back, that his wife had not settled up there? Stranger things have happened! |
hamish
said:
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... wasn't the world supposed to end when barry left ? milner stepped inside, MON will do it again, so good luck if he goes, we'll have a pot of cash to spend, if a player doesn't want to be at the villa then..... it's MON's biggest test so far, I doubt he will fail. |
Mowgs
said:
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... Guys why let the bitterness eat you up? This could be fantastic news for the club. The funds raised from James' sale will hopefully provide the platform to bring in the next 3 players to take the club on to the next level again. It wasn't that long ago that I remember reading comments on this blog about how Milner was very average. He's had one brilliant season playing centre mid. Who knows maybe he'll kick on again and become an even better player? Or maybe he'll fade due to being rotated too often? No point speculating either way. Let's just hope the deal is done swiftly and we can start using the money to strengthen. Bottom line. When you sell a player for over twice the price you paid for him it has to be seen as good business. |
VillaDude
said:
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... Don't expect Ireland or Parker. Ireland just got a new pad up in manchester and is on a very cushy contract. Only Man Utd can sign him. Parker would cost 20m as Sullivan will take us for everything we have... MON and 25m is very very dangerous... |
middletoncraig
said:
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... I remember when Chelsea sold Robbena few years ago and the press were hounding Bruce buck or Kenyon (whoever it was) about it cos he was awesome. There answer was "we bought him for £10 mill and a season later we've sold him for £20 mill so it was a great bit of business". The same can be said for Milner, bought him for £12-£13 mill, sell him for £25 mill and we've doubled the amount. No way is he worth £25 mill, the same that GB wasn't worth £18 mill when we got rid of him, but it won't make us any less of a team, in fact, i think it will make us stronger. When GB left, a lot of people were saing that we should have hung on to him, but we gained more points last season without him, so who says we can't do the same or better without Milner. He is a good player and he works hard, but he's not brilliant!!! Milner worth £25-£30 million. Fabregas worth £30 million. I know who i'd rather have in the villa line up!! I'm not saying we'll go for Fab but what i'm saying is, get the money while we can and get a couple of outstanding midfielders for that money!! |
Gwatkins
said:
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... DAJ - I dont agree with Young in the Middle a I dont think he is strong enough, but I agree he will have a good season. Young has said he wants to stay and these are the players we should build our team around. |
DanWilson82
said:
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... Villarich, I'd like to see Ash Playing just behind a lone striker, 2 strong defensive types behind him (petrov and Reo-coker, you may laugh but Reo really does seem to do a good job when he is played in position) then we have downing on one wing and someone new on the other, both rotating with Albrighton. Gabby and Carew could come in and out depending on opposition giving them plenty of rest time too to avoid the usual burn out. Obviously want to see some new faces too but I like many others just have this massive feeling in my Loins that Ashley Young is going to have a blinding season this time around. |
DAJ
said:
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... VillaRich, It wont be in Milners role. It will be just off the main striker(s). We will still need a replacement for spotty  |
VillaDude
said:
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... Expect McGeady, Keane and player like Flamini... - I can see MON playing with 2 holding players (Petrov and Flamini) - Keane and Young playing off the striker - McGeady and Downing swapping wings... Don't sound too bad? |
runtingz
said:
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... clearly the move is money motivated and like it has been said before you cant blame milner but you cant blame the villa staff either as i am sure they would have prefered to keep him.. I sense a lot of doom and gloom in regards to the news from ppl on here but if we get 25mil for him i think we have the better deal ...i think MON will still be at villa in 2 -3 seasons time unlike some comments i have read ..and i believe martin is 3 or 4 players away from making villa a threat to all in the prem it just takes longer as we are not spending at citehs rate but we have a top manager... a creative midfielder and a proper goal scorer will enable us to to be much more consistant at picking up points |
Damian
said:
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... As has been pointed out by a few - he is just a player. Made more noticeable by O'Neill and hopefully one that will be sold for a lot more - again, basically, because of O'Neill ... he also, really, isn't that good and in time - every one will see that when he isn't wearing claret and blue. Sure - one of the best engines on a player in the league - but cant beat a man or cross - okay, he can every now and then, but most of the time he cant. If Aston Villa can get £30mn for him - fantastic. We will then start to see players coming in and their values will go up too and we will make more money and Doug Ellis will be very happy. Sorry, Randy Lerner. |
lilywhitemike
said:
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... I think Villa are getting a great deal out of this. Milner is a good player, but no way is he a world class player and as someone above quite rightly mentioned, David Villa cost around the same, Fabregas etc and Milner not in that league. With that kind money you could bring in 2/3 real top players that will improve key areas of the team and make a real push for the top 4. |
JimVilla
said:
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... Damian, looks like you miss-spelt the "c" word and should pick you up on the grammar for reference. It should read as follows: - okay, he can every now and then, but most of the time he is a cant (mis-spelt for legal reasons). I appreciate that you have to speak in code and I agree whole heartedly. So do my family. |
TheDiamond
said:
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... I think he'll play more for city than most people here think. Also, I know I'm stating the obvious but it's only a good thing if O'Neill uses the money to improve the squad significantly on what it would be with Milner in it. Either way I'd be happy to see the greedy b****d gone but I am very worried about our central midfield situation. Right now it looks to me like O'Neill couldn't attract flies to silage. |
VijayD
said:
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... This is the same all over again, our best player and we sell him, Lerner is just a decorated version of Ellis, atleat he was a true fan!! we are being taken for a ride again... |
ak_27
said:
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... I don't know if some of the comments on the other thread were aimed at me regards being bitter at Milner or having a go at the guy. I don't blame Milner one bit for making this move. I just stated when a certain idiot came on saying that Milner was on holidays and couldn't make any decision that his decision was made a long time ago and anybody with a brain could see that (thats where you probably missed out Timmyrara). If we can get Ireland in his replacement plus cash we are actually getting a better player (Ireland is a far better attacking CM and take away Milners goals and assits from the deadballs then his stats are very average) plus money to spend elsewhere then this is a great deal for Villa. But to get Ireland we will need to pay him big wages and this is where Villa need to make the decision to either plod along and be happy with 6/7/8th forever always losing our best players when others come in for them or go and pay what it takes to bring in qualit players when they are actually available and willing to join the club. I mean this Stephen Ireland is a player far above the quality of a club like Villa fpr where we are right now and we should move the heavens to sign him up. As for Milner i honestly think he will struggle to get into the City team. But he may just be happy to get the big pay packet and feature on and off for the season. For Villa to move on this deal needs to go through now and i would love to maybe see Ireland, Ohunho and Bellamy come in Villa Park in a straight swap. |
EnglandAvfc
said:
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... Thank god this is finally coming to an end....Was always going to happen anyway so im not down about it.....Can't complain if we are going to get £25-£30mill for him Only thing is i can see it taking o neill at least a year to replace him as he is the slowest manager in premier league history when it comes to bringing in new players Be a few more out's before we even see 1 signing i imagine |
Manc
said:
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... City fan here with no axe to grind, but some of the comments from your supporters smack of people who have no idea how football works. Players coming and going from clubs is not a new thing, it's been going on for a long long time. One of your contributers, Jim, had an expletive in every sentence and then called us CHAV's, ha ha. YCNMIU. Look lads, for 30 million, keep him. We'll offer Bremen £25 million for Ozil. He'll put in a transfer request and move to Birmingham, your city's biggest club, for £15 million. Ta ta |
john doyle
said:
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... let him go for the money you are right he wont get into there side he aint good enough they just want to weaken all the teams around them but it will make us a lot stronger if mon for once thinks big and dont go buying old has beens get in some flair and some legs for midfeild milner can f**k off now |
JimVilla
said:
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... On a serious note, he can certainly be replaced...and with a bit of luck upgraded. £30 mill (if thats what we get - have they offered more than £20 yet). Also, is it even City he's going to? All I have read is that he didn't accept the new offer - this could mean a few things and maybe City have already backed out and Liverpool or (god forbid) Spurs are in for the c word. |
Dubbers
said:
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... GHitchens61 said: Damian I must be missing something too, cause no one in their right mind would ever say Randy Lerner is anything like Doug Else |
DanWilson82
said:
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... Manc you probably know a lot about being the second biggest club in a city. Ta Ta |
Damian
said:
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... Randy Lenrner, May 2010 I'm not worried about losing James Milner. I think James will play for Aston Villa and should play for Aston Villa. |
VijayD
said:
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... If this isnt sell to buy, what is?? this is a sick joke, we fans are being treated like crap, i spend £5000 per season(thats not counting the family trips) on coming to watch villa, Lerner should just go! |
ak_27
said:
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...City fan here with no axe to grind Manc for a city fan with no axe to grind you still managed to grind a few axes in your comments there. Thanks for Dunne by the way. And hopefully you will repeat this mistake by giving us Ireland in part of the Milner deal.  |
VillaDude
said:
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... Actual quotes from MON on Milner and McGeady... http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/3933/ Expect both be moving... |
Mowgs
said:
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... Pretty irrelevant what Randy or MON think or say if the player wants to leave though Damo. |
Manc
said:
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... manyoo play in the Borough of Trafford. they haven't played a home game in the city of Manchester, barring when they played at Maine Road after the war, since 1910. Anything else you need to know. Ta ta now. |
JimVilla
said:
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... Manc - You are chavs - not the people of manchester (I lived on Cartlon Avenue as a kid and know the area well and I'm happy for my mates in South Manchester). But there's no denying your owners, manager and players are pure chav...bling bling. Wayne Bridge is one of the highest paid players in the world and that's a joke mate. You'll always be the new Chelsea, and no-one likes the old Chelsea. And your chief cheerleaders, the Gallaghers, 100% pure chav. Ta Ta mate - what was your last trophy again? |
rocky5
said:
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... so how does football work then |
JimVilla
said:
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... By the way Manc...No idea how football works? If it works by attracting a Shiekh Owner to invest half a billion and still no trophies, I think I'd rather be clueless Villain son. |
Bosnich13
said:
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... Manc you epitomise everything that is wrong with Nouveau Riche footabll clubs/supporters - no class |
hetid1965
said:
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... I thought Onuoha was unsettled ? He could be factored into the Milner deal maybe ? I know we need probably 2 forwards and a replacement for Milner, but i think he could solve our problem in defence ? |
Manc
said:
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... Aw diddums Jim, you're really hurting aren't you. Go and seek help. Our last trophy? League Cup in 1976. Sheikh Mansour a CHAV, ha ha. We could buy your club 100 times over and close you down. Keep off the bostik you poor jealous deluded fool. |
Manc
said:
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... Got to go. You're obviously all bitter deluded little girls in Englands 5th city, by the way, it's a sh*thole. Good luck with your mid-table battle and watch Manchester's only Premier League team wreak havoc... |
rustynoodles
said:
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... Oh come on! Back to the Doug Ellis days...are you serious?? I am well into my 30’s and remember the Ellis Villa cash cow and this is nothing like. Football is a completely different beast and as much as it pains me i know we can never compete with Man City(and Chelsea to a lesser extent) and their riches but you know what i don’t think we are doing too bad and i would rather be where we are now than either back in the Ellis era or a club spending money and paying wages they can not sustain. At some point soon the premiership will no longer be the darling of football and the playboys and idiotic investors will get bored and jump ship and things will get awfully messy! As for Milner i am disappointed that he got his head turned so easily as he always came across as a level headed hard working lad who was looking for a stable club. I’m not bitter towards him(although I’m not sure i will wear my shirt with his name on for anything other than decorating!) and hope it doesn’t harm is career too much as he is important for England. We will continue to improve without him as we did without Barry! |
Christian1983
said:
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... Listen Manc, you've got yourself a very hard working, highly overrated English footballer. All grit and tenacity but of questioanable skill. No doubt you'll warm to him, like we all did at Villa because he'll virtually die on the pitch through effort but, believe me, he's no worldbeater. No other big club is exactly hammering down our door for him. He'll do you well, score you a few goals and cover every blade of Wastelands, but for £25-30m I'd be wanting a lot, lot, lot more. I'm angry becuase I don't like any player saying that, essentially, Villa isn't good enough for them. But I don't blame him either. Putting aside my feelings for Villa, if I could play with Tevez and Silva for 150k a week, or Heskey and Downing for 50k a week, I know where I'd be. As a few others have said, if we can get Ireland + cash, we'll have the better deal. A year ago Milner was a medicore midfielder, now we're getting £25m for him! Chin up lads  |
Lightning Smith
said:
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... It absolutley amazes me that any one even if you were printing your own money. Would consider paying 3om for a lad that is currently little more than a journeyman in the shape of James Milner. City will realise this and milner will stay at Villa unless MON gets his head out of the clouds Good luck to Milner of course. Football can be short lived. |
DanWilson82
said:
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... Manc this is just silly... Jealous? Villa currently have 21 major honours/titles, Man City 8. We have won the biggest competition in European Football. We have a huge history, Man City really don't. This isn't a dig at City, they really don't bother me, and i'm sure you will start winning something soon due to your massive funding, but that will be the only reason for it, I mean Accrington Stanley could win the Prem in 5 years time if they had your owner, so cut the jealous crap, we have more to be proud of than 99.9% of clubs in world football? Get off the smack... |
JimVilla
said:
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... Not hurting that bad mate...34 years and no trophies? I rest my case. Incidently, don't the council own your stadium? Quite ironic really, a council owned property full of blinged out idiots well above their station. CHAV!!!! |
rocky5
said:
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...VijayD said:just don`t tell him salifou is gonna take his place |
vivavilla
said:
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... Man City fans are just bitter that they're forking out £25-£30m for a player who in real world footballing money is worth no more than the £12m we originally paid for him. |
JimVilla
said:
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... Get that Mac aye....he's like the cat that got the cream ever since he heard Robbie was back in Take That. Go and dream Manc, I'd say reminisce but thats just cruel. |
VillaDude
said:
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... Where is Salifou?? hasn't been included in the last 2 games and not on the plane to Ireland... I think he might have left?!? |
Christian1983
said:
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... Exactly vivavilla, we've got a really fantastic deal here. £25-30m for JAMES MILNER???!!!! We should be rubbing our hands together and heading to the pub for a good celebration!!!! Fabregas will go for ~35m, Ozil ~20m, David Villa went for £34m! This is the deal of the century!!!!! |
Geoff
said:
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... That does sound good. Its a more attacking formation, maybe it would translate to better results. GK Friedel (Bumblebee) RB Cuellar (because they STILL wont get a right back, watch...) CB Collins CB Dunne LB Warnock RAM McGeady/Downing CDM Petrov CDM Flamini LAM Ashley Young (new contract extension soon) CF Keane/whoever else we pick up ST Gabby/Fonz |
Chiefy
said:
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...Where is Salifou?? has found his vocation and is assisting with the renovation on the north stand |
ak_27
said:
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...Where is Salifou?? hasn't been included in the last 2 games and not on the plane to Ireland... I heard BP had hired him to single handily swim to the bottom of the ocean and stop the leak. |
Simeon
said:
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... According to our manager, Milner told him before the World Cup that he wanted to go. Conclusive prrof that Milner hasn't been stringing anyone along. Of course he hasn't gone public about wanting to leave. If he did, he'd have been accused of engineering a move to Man City on the cheap. I'm not prive to the negotiations that have taken place between Villa and City regarding this Milner, but I would hope that our owner and manager recognised very quickly that keeping Milner would be a bad move, and that they were therefore pulling out the stops to get the best possible deal for the club. Maybe the transfer being a long, drawn out affair is part of us getting the best deal for the club. Or maybe Villa just don't have much control over the situation. The important thing is that the interests of the club are protected, and in my view this means selling Milner for the highest price Man City are prepared to offer - whether that meets our valuation or not - and get on with the business of reinvesting the money in new talent. Although I wouldn't necessarily share this view, the fact that so many people are recognising that we can come out of this deal on top if we get a certain Irish midfielder in part exchange shows that the fans understand that we can sell (arguably) our best player and yet still improve as a team. This is what needs to happen, and the sooner the better. |
frosty
said:
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...At some point soon the premiership will no longer be the darling of football and the playboys and idiotic investors will get bored and jump ship and things will get awfully messy! Amen to that. I used to follow football, now all thats left to follow is business models. |
Geoff
said:
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... In all honesty, they are just a hair off from 4th. They tanked a few games that they should have won, and if they had won those WINNABLE games they WOULD HAVE finished fourth. And I am talking about those mid to bottom table teams we only got draws against, etc. You have to go away and beat those teams. Thats really the difference. Chelsea goes into a place like Wigan and wins 5-1, we settle for a draw. No. We need to be more aggressive and with a 4-2-4 we would be. Because thats really what it is. The attacking midfielders are basically wingers. Two holding players, one player in the hole, one hitman. Even with Gabby up there linking with Keane you will win more often. Without the right replacements though for Milner, I feel that the manager is in trouble if they do not do this right. |
Simeon
said:
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... I've just finished reading the interview I referred to just now on this Irish website. http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/3933/ Quotes attributed to our manager: “As the chairman mentioned, maybe it is a case of probably having to sell to buy. That is something I’m delving into at the moment.” So, I guess that means there is a sell to buy policy then... |
hetid1965
said:
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... I think salifou could be lined up for a spot of punditry after the fantastic job his fellow countryman Manu did ! |
Villa_Chris
said:
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... Simeon I picked up on that too. This is what annoys me about constantly slating the manager and/or players when we know nothing. Maybe it isn't MON's fault that we're 'the snail of the premier league' in the transfer market. |
ak_27
said:
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... Villa_Chris i see what your saying but he was the same in every other summer wondow when he did not have this sell to buy situation to deal with. This is just the way he works in the transfer windows as this is also how he operated when at Celtic also. |
Poleman
said:
 |
... Raul has been frozen out at Real & Mourinho won't want him. Yeah sure he is past his best he is still miles better than anything we have up front. Would offer a wealth of experience and is also better than Robbie Keane who people on here seem to rate quite highly (i don't know why?) |
Geoff
said:
|
... Well I cannot wait until next week when Milner is gone and we can start buying players. I would expect Keane and McGeady to be unveiled quickly, with Flamini or some other midfielder (NOT Ireland, I do not think that he wants to come to Villa NOR do I think our manager rates him highly). It would be nice if we could get some cover at right back, and a another striker (younger, cheaper maybe as an alternate), some cover for Delphs injury too. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Geoff If we're so close to fourth place, why is Milner so eager to join Man City? (And please don't say it's for the money.) If Milner, and Barry before him, don't believe in what is going on at the club, why should we? I hear positive things from the likes of Friedel, Downing and Petrov, but the truth is that these players are lucky to be at a club like Villa, and the level we are at is the very highest level they could hope to play at, so of course they're going to talk up the clubs chances and ambition. The expression 'so near, yet so far' would be applicable to our situation, if one were being really optimistic. My own view is that objects in the rear view mirror may appear closer than they are. With thank to Meatloaf. Well, I say thanks, but I think I'm being a little generous to the big guy... |
Tott
said:
 |
... Smells like Sidwell all over. He was the King of the Midfield in Reading, was lured by big bucks to Chelsea, lost all confidence from not playing etc. Who are not going to play in City's midfield? We sold Barry at the right time (the world was laughing at him during the Germany game) and with the money from City for Milner we can make huge progress. |
ak_27
said:
|
...McGeady to be unveiled quickly, with Flamini or some other midfielder (NOT Ireland, I do not think that he wants to come to Villa NOR do I think our manager rates him highly). Well if rates McGeady higher then Ireland then that would just some up my views on the man as a manager to be honest. |
Matt T
said:
 |
... Not posted a comment on here in a while, but after reading some of the comments above, I absolutely can't get my head around some of the logic being bandied about. Comparing Lerner to Ellis because Milner is being sold is mental. Lerner has offered the player a better contract than anyone has ever had at the club, and the player decides he wants to leave. Tell me how that is the fault of the owner? Before you say that Lerner could have put more money in - the bloke is a business man, and he only has a finite amount of cash... we are not owned by an Abramovich or Mansour. He has already invest £140m+ so far and maybe that is the limit of how much he can afford at present? To criticise him for not being able to put more in is a bit lacking really. If you had a snooty missus and she constantly wanted a bigger house but you couldn't afford it, would you think it fair that her mates say dump you? I mean c'mon. As for sell to buy - this may well have been said, but this particular instance isn't anything about selling to buy. This is about a player who has decided, for whatever reason, that they want to leave the club. If James Milner wants to earn more money and win silverware in the immediate future, then let him go. We've seen what happened with Barry - give it a few seasons and Milner will be lucky to be on the bench. After all, they have just bought David Silva for the same sort of price as they are suggesting for Milner - who in their right mind considers them equal in talent? MON has had a fair amount of money to spend. Some of this he has spent on assets that he could sell and make money on (Milner being a prime example, as would Ashley Young). However, he has also bought a fair number of players who are now worth a lot less than he paid for them, and will most likely never play for Villa again. Somehow Lerner has to balance the books - how else do you suggest he puts more money in, unless he makes it from somewhere? Sell to buy would be O'Neill CHOOSING to sell Ashley Young against his will to Spurs. Selling Milner to Man City is completely different - if he doesn't want to play for us anymore, then we should get a player (or players) who do. Frankly if we got Stephen Ireland (who can play right and centre midfield) and £15m (or Onouha and Richards), I'd be frankly laughing all the way to the bank. It's a sad day when a player wants to leave because they think they can do better elsewhere, but we have to accept that as a football club, we are not Manchester United or Liverpool at present and, as such, should not be surprised when players want to leave us. Here's to the seeing what MON does in the transfer window (whenever he decides to do it) |
Hennessy
said:
 |
... Silly Manc - by the time ye get a team together & qualify for the Champions League, the Sheikh's trillions will mean now't. An what would a Sheikh want with a toy he cant play with. Enjoy it while ye can, and the rest of us will enjoy the show as the administrators come in. Slow & Steady wins the race, Id'nt that rite Randy |
bobvillian
said:
 |
... this will tell us how good a manager is MON.milner now seems certain to go;mcreadery looks like he his coming[god forbid]not sure about keane;but im still waiting for a top quality goalscorer and midfielder.but as we all know MON doesnt seem to like creavite playmakers?So i think jenus;onohona;cline;might be on his hit list |
Simeon
said:
|
... Villa_Chris The sell to buy policy has been in place since January as far as I can tell. And it's entirely consistent with preserving the financial integrity of the club. Personally, I whole-heartedly support the policy, and in one sense I'm delighted that we haven't signed anyone yet. The problem is that most of the players we need to sell are close to worthless, despite having been bought for significant sums. And there's no escaping the fact that these players were signed by our manager, and it's because our manager hasn't given them any game time, and made it clear to other clubs that they are deadwood, that we are going to get only a fraction of our money back on them - if we can sell them at all that is. The manager has no-one else but himself to blame for him having even less money to work with than he might otherwise. |
Geoff
said:
|
... That is just how it seems. It really seems they are not interested in Ireland, so we might as well come off it and see what else is out there. Flamini actually is a classier player anyway. Also, look at the totality of the season. They made a cup final, a semifinal, and were a few more consistent performances away from 4th. Look at it this way, some people literally act like this team is Bum City, Wigan Athletic or Bolton. Its not, we are more similar to Everton - a club with a great history and great support and some money, but struggling for sometime to take the next step up above into the top four. We really are not that far off. Three or four players away and better more consistent performances against inferior teams. They don't have to spend loads of money either. Realistically though, they can get one or two of the types of players they need in this offseason. |
bobvillian
said:
|
... PROVE ME WRONG MON GET IN BIG SIGNING NO I DONT MEAN MCREADEY I MEAN A PROVEN PREMERSHIP PLAYER. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Geoff I agree, and think that I would rather sell players who do not want to play for Villa, and buy players that do in order to step up to the top four. There are players out there who will do a job for us at our current level. We have started to stabilise as a club nowadays, and there is no more of the "good season, bad season" situation that we have had with many many managers before O'Neill. I would love to see us get there this season but my expectation level is around 7th-8th. Anything higher than that will be an achievement in my eyes. People can say that is accepting second best, but in reality it is accepting a base level of what should happen - I would rather it were more, but that is the base level. If we finish 6th, I would be happy so long as we continue to constantly build on the team. It's a long haul game, not instant success (not with our setup anyway) |
Christian1983
said:
|
... Gosling's gone to Newcastle  Don't think he'd have immediately improved us but he's got a lot of potential, allegedly. |
runtingz
said:
|
... Manc the one thing you cant buy is class it comes with breeding and time something that villa's history is steeped in you cant buy respect mate....ta ta cant understand why some villans on here dislike randy lerner so much or martin for that matter could you please explain and suggest who you would rather be at the helm of our club |
Simeon
said:
|
... By the way, did anyone see the article in the Post about the surplus six? The length of some of the player's contracts makes for very interesting reading. Beye is contracted for two more years. He'll be 33 before Christmas. He's on about 35k a week. Who on earth is going to sign him? He'll be happy to take his wages and sit on the bench. Luke Young has three years left on his contract. He's just turned 31. He's fallen out with the manager and in a recent interview made it very clear that he wanted to leave, having not been given a fair go. The season before last he was excellent. He ought to have gone to the World Cup and been our first choice right-back. He's a very good player and I'd be amazed if a decent club weren't interested in him. But interested clubs will know that they can dictate terms, because we are desperate to sell. If we get £2m for him, we'll be very lucky. And this for a player we signed for £6m, and who has spent half his Villa career doing nothing. Reo-Coker's contract expires next summer. It would be remarkable if he signed a new contract. He's not going to feature much this season because he won't be first choice, and backup players never do get much playing time with the way our manager does things. We might be able to sell him for a small fee this summer, but the likelihood is that a player we signed for £8m will leave for nothing. Davies has two years left on his contract. He's not going to get near the team because he's well behind Collins and Dunne in the pecking order, and because of the clause in his contract that stipulates a pay rise after he makes a few more appearances. He will surely be sold, but at a knock-down price. We won't get half of the £10m we paid for him. Shorey has one year left on his contract. Again, we might get a small fee for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he went out on loan somewhere for the season, simply to get him off the wage bill - and if something happens to Warnock we can recall him. I don't know for sure how long Sidwell has left on his contract, but I believe it's just 12 months. The rumour is that there is interest from Fulham and West Ham - but these rumours are unsubstantiated. Given the wages he's on, and given that he has spent the last three seasons being poor for us and Chelsea, we'll be lucky to get anything for him. To sum up, we could well get Davies off the wage bill and generate £4-5m (being optimistic). If we're lucky, we might not have to pay Shorey's wages either. But this hardly sets us up for an exciting summer of new signings. We really are at the mercy of other clubs, and we just have to hope against hope that there will be manager's stupid enough to come in for our manager's rejects. |
Rocco
said:
 |
... Steve Mcmahon Steve Hodge Mark Walters David Platt Dwight Yorke Gareth Southgate Ugo Ehiogu Gareth Barry James Milner who next Ashley Young, Gabby, Delph and Delfouneso, I thought the days of Villa being a selling club were well and truly behind us, i truly beleve that MON and Lerner arent up to the job, yes Martin can motivate and get the best out of certain players but after that forget it. as for Lerner and his 5 year plan, forget it we are further away than the darkest days of O leary and Doug maybe we ought to get Doug and Billy Mcneil back |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, Yep - this is the price of having squad players who don't get played, because the manager doesn't rotate the squad. To follow his own logic, then perhaps he should only buy a solid first XI, and pad the rest of the team out with youngsters. That way we don't end up with big earner who never play. Sadly, he doesn't do that either and, like you say, it then means we have players on great money at the club, who are more than happy to sit out their contracts. Some of the people on here are chastising Milner for going somewhere to pick up a load of cash for probably not being as involved as he is at Villa - it's exactly the same situation (on a smaller scale) for Davies/Reo-Coker/Shorey etc having come from smaller teams to us, only to find themselves shelved. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Rocco, Of that list, at least half of them were not about sell to buy, and of the list only 2 are players who O'Neill has sold (and Milner hasn't gone yet) Barry left because he didn't want to play for the club - not the same as sell to buy. Milner is the same - we WANT to keep him but if the player doesn't want to play for us, then sell him. As for Yorke - sell to buy? I don't think so - under that logic are Everton a sell to buy team because they sold Rooney to United? No - only an insane Villa fan would believe that sale was anything but the player moving to a bigger club because he wasn't happy with us. |
vivavilla
said:
|
... So essentially, it's MON, not Randy, who has screwed up the financial structure of the club. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Rocco, Further away? Further away than 16th in the league which is where it was left with O'Leary and Ellis? Now we have consistently finished top 6 and spent £140m. Please - just because Milner is expressing an interest to leave, it is not something to get massively worried about. We have only gone forwards with O'Neill and Lerner in charge. If you can't see that, well I don't know how to put across an argument that shows it any clearer than finishing top 6 consistently. |
Cuddy_Villa
said:
 |
... if he wants to go then let him f*** off i hope he has fun on the bench if i were in the FA i would ban Citeh from buying players from the PL because theyve done this to us, Arsenal and Manure its f****** ridiculous |
Matt T
said:
|
... vivavilla, You could certainly argue that had we not bought some of the players who have rarely played for us then, yes, we would be better off than having spent millions on fees and wages for players who don't play. That said, Milner will provide a profit from his sale, just as Barry did when he left. Neither of which are "sell to buy" but they generate money from players who don't want to play for Villa. |
villarobin
said:
 |
... good business simple as that ! ive said it before lokk at Spurs, they sold their best players time and again, made a shed load of dosh and built a good / big squad. James Milner is a good player, but like Barry, he is replaceable. My main gripe is with Milner himself, he should have given Oneil the courtesy of another year or two or another contract, but he obviously knows that the bubble will burst and he may have a crap season this year. £25m is ridiculous for a work horse, which is basically what he is. If we get good players in good ridance to him. Look at Barry , he will be out on his ear from Man City soon and end up at Bolton or something, ditto for Milner in 2-3 years. |
Matt T
said:
|
... vivavilla That said though, I wouldn't exactly call us screwed up. Just that we have to be more prudent with how we spend the money. I've no doubt that if Milner goes, O'Neill will be given the money from the transfer to spend on other players, rather than Lerner keeping it to balance the club accounts. |
vivavilla
said:
|
...That said though, I wouldn't exactly call us screwed up. Just that we have to be more prudent with how we spend the money. Perhaps, but Randy wasn't exactly tight with his money in previous seasons, despite what some people would have you believe. He provided ample funds for MON to build a squad and build a squad he hasn't exactly done well. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Matt T I think you speak alot of sense, and your point about our 'deadwood' players sharing similarities with Milner is excellent. I suspect we'd disagree over the merits of our manager, but I think that Lerner is getting a raw deal from some fans. When Lerner took over, he was one of the richest owners in the Premier League. But in four years alot has changed, most notably Man City's emergence. That he isn't personally wealthy enough to go toe to toe with the likes of Man City is hardly his fault (although maybe he could have worked a bit harder earlier on in life, and made more of an effort to build up his personal fortune...). Nor is it his fault that our manager has spent as much money as he has on players from whom we are going to see little or no return. My guess is that all Lerner can realistically do for the club is give us a solid foundation on which to build by developing the business side of things. How successful he is at doing that will determine how history judges him. At this point, I think it's far too early to say that we have taken significant steps towards being self-sustainable. I think he is an improvement on Ellis if only because Ellis took over a club with an excellent side then dismantled it. Eillis is also an arrogant man who was never able to run Villa as a proper business. The corner-shop jibes were well-deserved. Lerner at least has more class, and he hasn't made things worse, but better overall. Whether we will achieve success with him as owner is another matter entirely, but until someone with alot more money comes along and shows an interest in buying the club, we will stick with Lerner, and it would seem we're in reasoably safe hands. |
Simeon
said:
|
... vivavilla Absolutely right - although Lerner must share some of the responsibility (and ultimately will reap the harvest, being the owner as opposed to the mere manager) as our manager did what he did on Lerner's watch, and with his unwitting blessing. |
villabiker
said:
 |
... let the sh/t go he new he was not going to sign before he left for the WC. we have offered to make him the highest payed player at villa. its nothing to do with learner or oneil its MONEY . same as cole today saying it was nothing to do with money but the location WOT FECKING LIVERPOOL id have more respect if they where truthful with the fans |
kohoutek
said:
 |
...Simeon The money being spent is so massive that they have to look a better bet to win things sooner than us, however good we are or aren't at the moment. I think it's fair to say, looking at results and 6 points, that we honestly aren't far off fourth place. Or weren't, anyway. But City might very well win the league in a year or two, and that's a much different proposition. There's very little stopping them except them shooting themselves in their own collective foot. They'll be playing in the CL, and will be expecting to do well, not just survive and have a good run. The minute City were bought, they were always ahead of us in the race to the promised land. And given any player's limited career span, winning now versus winning later is always an issue. With Milner, I agree, sell him and we'll be better off. The player has seen his stock skyrocket, sees he's up for a large payday, will be playing on a real, instant contender...It's a bit of a no-brainer. Personally, I think we can do better. I do like Milner, but he is replaceable and/or upgradable, so we might as well double our money and let him move on. There's no loyalty in sports for players, and it's something we have to get used to. We don't mind players coming to us, we have to accept them leaving, too. The worst situation will be hanging on to him and losing leverage/money when he moves on anyway. This is what I hope MON realizes, and that, as others have said, the slow resolution indicates a deal is being done. It will be self-defeating to thwart the move unless we're really able to do the business and get fourth and perhaps hang on to him. But I think we'd need better than him anyway to push on from there, so even that scenario does us little long-term good (except perhaps for keeping his value up). And I would have Ireland if a deal could be done. He's far more creative and dangerous than Milner. But if Ireland wants to fight for his place, you can't blame him, because he wants to stay where success will be virtually guaranteed. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Villabiker Re: Cole, he moved to Liverpool because they are a bigger club than us - nothing else. |
Damian
said:
|
... Matt T due respect but i dont think we have gone forward under o'neill and lerner, we have simply consolidated our position and stood still and i'm afraid if you cant see that you are only looking at aston villa through claret and blue tinted glasses and over a 6 year period |
runtingz
said:
|
... Simeon your last post raises a very good point of how we have players on vast amounts of cash sitting around ... MON never had that problem in his other jobs .. not sure if its down to poor management of certian individuals or the fact that even decent players earn far too much in the modern game .. maybe a mixture of both |
Simeon
said:
|
... villarobin It really doesn't make our club look good when you are so dismissive of players who are either currently our best players, or who would walk into our team. Barry will not end up at Bolton, and will more than likely remain at City for the next few years and be an important player for them. If at some point Man City choose, for whatever reason, to move him on, then, assuming he hasn't suffered a massive loss of form, he will go to a club that can afford his wages, and therefore a club that is likely to be one of the top competitors. Put it this way, the way things are, the chances of Barry rejoining us are remote. We'd be too much of a step down. It's sad, but it's true. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, Thanks for the comments I think we're probably quite similar in manager thoughts - I think other managers could have done better than O'Neill up till this point, although I would gladly prefer stability over and above what we had before MON. That said, I would rather have the success of Redknapp at Spurs than what O'Neill has done for us (notwithstanding the fact that I really wouldn't want Redknapp himself as our manager). We are a relatively big club, and I think Spurs are the only really direct comparison with us as to what a club of our size can do with a similar budget to what we have had. I think that shows up that (again we agree) Lerner is not at fault for wanting to balance the books, merely that Martin isn't as good as he may believe about buying players we don't really need/that won't cut the mustard. It's fine saying that Routledge was a cheap mistake for example, but bucketloads of cheap mistakes soon add up. |
villarobin
said:
|
... Simeon - Absolute rubbish mate. As soon as Man City start winning things the Fabregases / Ronaldos etc will want to go there and Barry wont last 5 mins. Of course Im dismissive of Milner , he is obviously a soulless , jumped up little prat , with no loyalty. |
DAJ
said:
|
... If we fail to obtain the right amount of funding from our sell to buy policy, then i think we can still do well. It would however mean our manager becoming more flexible with the squad he has, and the formation he plays. We have a lot of talent coming through and this talent has to be utilised. Kids like Licaj, Albrighton and Clarke, Bannon, Weisman and the Fonz have to be brought into play more often. These players are good enough, they just need the manager to take a little risk with them... I mean, what do we have to lose if money is short? Also, he needs to be more flexible in his tactics. Move away from the rigid 4-4-2. We have some the players to do that, so lets do it. My fear is Martin is to stuck in his ways to do any of the above. Thats not knocking him, its the way he is, but we may find that we need to vary a lot of things this coming season, they way things are panning out at the moment. One things for sure, we can forget about filling a 50,000 seater stadium any time soon, unless Randy and Martin can pull a few bunnys out of the hat! |
Hadders7
said:
 |
... Guys, Milner is a good player, but he certainly isn't a world class player! He has a great engine, but is sluggish and if we can get £25 or near for him, I would sell him whether he wants to stay or not...that is insane money! What is even more insane, is the fact we want Scott Parker to replace him...I do hope that is a sick joke! A 30yr old who has been around the block and would cost us well over the odds...please NO! Let's look abroad please or like what has been suggested, get some players and cash from City...Hart, Ireland...just not Wright Phillips...he is toilet! He couldn't beat a single player at the world cup and the ball just bounced off him....we have had quick and rubbish before...Vassell anyone! |
Matt T
said:
|
... Damian, We went from 16th, to 11th and then to 6th where we have stayed for multiple seasons now. In the past days of Villa, we were notorious for having off seasons after good ones (Big Ron getting sacked the season after we won the League Cup because we were practically in the relegation zone etc, O'Leary going from high league position to almost relegation etc). At least we have consistency although, as I've said before, I think there are managers who could do better than O'Neill - the doubt is if we'd actually attract them. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Kohoutek Can't argue with much of what you say (though I am far from convinced that Ireland would be a good signing for a number of reasons, and his apparent reluctance to leave City and take a step down is another one to add to the list). But as I've said before, I think that our points total last season flattered us a little, and even if I'm wrong to think that, I think it's pretty clear that the clubs around us last season are going to improve this season to a greater extent than we will. It takes quite a bit just to stand still, and I think we are going to struggle even to do that. And this is why Milner wants to move to City. |
DAJ
said:
|
...The question is: how much more money these whores need? As much as plastic clubs like city and Chelsea are willing to offer them  |
walshy
said:
 |
... damian u must be kidding!! havnt gone forward! we were scraping to stay in this league before martin came! people have some short term memories!now weve been 6th two seasons on the trot! just people want to much to soon....we are doing things the correct way! |
Rortyboy
said:
 |
... The question is why did MON tell the world Milner wants to leave - it cam from him and not Jimmy. I think he is saying to Citeh pay up or you ain't getting him - just like L'Pool didn't get Barry. Mancini was moaning about the prices Citeh have to pay and MON is making the point in reply that if you want to buy our player then you have to pay. Good business - good use of media. |
ak_27
said:
|
...I think that shows up that (again we agree) Lerner is not at fault for wanting to balance the books, merely that Martin isn't as good as he may believe about buying players we don't really need/that won't cut the mustard I could not agree more and at the root of the cause is the buy British policy that Mr. O'Neill has been given so much bulls**t praise for. Sidwell alone an extremle average limited player who has barely offered us anything since arriviing has cost us £10m in fees and wages in 2 years. Add in the cost of 2 west ham subs from a team that nearly went down one season also and that is a lot of wasted cash. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Also, as for the quiet season, big season in terms of spending... Surely you'd hope this would be the case? If you have a good team, you shouldn't really be wanting to chuck lots of (relatively speaking) money at it every year to make it work. Yes, you have to replace retiring/leaving players, but a high net spend is both a) indicative of a team that can't produce it's own talent or improve it's purchased talent (see Man City/Chelsea) and b) illustrates a club that will end up in increasing levels of debt sooner or later. If financial regulations come in and we have to balance the books as a league, then I think we are a lot better off than some of the "bigger" teams. |
VijayD
said:
|
... The most worrying thing is that from what i hear is that the money from the Milner sale will not be given to MON but most of it(maybe half) will be taken by Lerner to reduce his investment into the club. |
Damian
said:
|
... Matt T yes - but where did we finish before 11th? that was my point about looking through claret and blue tinted glasses over a six year period you also reference Spurs above as direct competition for us - you yourself then accept that we are bigger than 11th and 16th my point is - we are a top 6 club - have been for years and years. they have consolidated our position - not really moved us forward dont get me wrong - that in itself isn't easy, but it is further proof as to why we need a new manager because even if the next one doesn't work either we can always go and get another o'neill who with the resources we have at our disposal (ellis demonstrated this perfectly) we can always have a little run and always finish back in the top 6 (even higher), win things (okay league cup) - but it will happen if o'neill was working under ellis this would be his last season coming up because us supporters are actually quite demanding |
DAJ
said:
|
...The question is why did MON tell the world Milner wants to leave - it cam from him and not Jimmy. I think he is saying to Citeh pay up or you ain't getting him - just like L'Pool didn't get Barry. Mancini was moaning about the prices Citeh have to pay and MON is making the point in reply that if you want to buy our player then you have to pay. Good business - good use of media. Very good points! He could also be telling other clubs hes available, and therefore pushing Man City to conclude any deal soon, before a bidding war starts? |
Damian
said:
|
... walshy damian u must be kidding!! havnt gone forward! we were scraping to stay in this league before martin came! people have some short term memories!now weve been 6th two seasons on the trot!we haven't gone forward if you look further than just a few seasons - we have merely consolidated. if you know your aston villa you have to accept this i would suggest it is you who has the short term memory as for how many times we have finished 6th .. well and as for doing it the correct way - so are manchester city. where is the rule that says they cant do what they are doing? |
Matt T
said:
|
... Damian, We are indeed a top 6 club in historical terms but ask yourself the question, do the following teams have better or worse squads than us: Man United Chelsea Arsenal Spurs Man City If you agree they are better than our squads (and pretty much 4 of those 5 have more capability to be staying ahead of us for some while yet) then 6th is about right for us. On top of this, Everton will be better this season and (historically) Liverpool are a WAY bigger team than Villa (and now have a manager with real nous). The fact that Cole joined them and we didn't even have a sniff was a big indicator of that. 6th next season (given the current competition for this place) would be a fair guess for next season's finish. At the very maximum, we would be past Spurs and/or Man City, but that relies heavily on us getting a bit dose of luck. |
Rortyboy
said:
|
... Damian - You underestimate the importance of consistency in moving forward. By your own analysis we have not progressed because you can't progress by sometimes throwing money at a team and getting in the top 6. As you argue it doesn't work - proof Villa. And for comparisons sake which other Villa manager has managed MON's consistency. I agree we have finished higher a couple of times in the PL and of course before that. But this is our most consistent period and that gives us something to build on. |
Rocco
said:
|
... Matt T, i agree with what you have said 6th is better than 16th, but my point is nothing has really changed since Randy and Mon have taken over yes the Holte pub is great, but i dont really give a toss about that, or a free bus ride to to some carling cup replay. yes the club/team has improved but not to what it should have done |
Simeon
said:
|
... runtingz There's no doubt that wages across the board are ridiculous in football these days. Despite the huge amount of money that is in football, clubs - at least in this country - are spending unsustainable sums on wages. Our manager cannot be held responsible for this general trend. But what he is responsible for is authorising big contracts for players who are just making up the numbers. Either he knew when he signed the likes of Beye that he was hardly ever going to play, or he bought him without accurately juding the player's abilities. Whichever is true, it's bad management. Of course, if Beye were an isolated case, there wouldn't be an issue. All manager's make mistakes. But Beye is just one of many who have either been surplus to requirements immediately, or have become surplus to requirements before bing moved on. Davies is a classic example of the latter. Our manager signed him, and maybe he eventually realised thet he had made a mistake in doing so, and so he brought in some better players. This is perfectly reasonable, and happens all the time in football. But the smart manager will make sure that the player he is going to get rid of has a buyer before he signs the replacement. Otherwise, he runs the risk of overlaoding the wage bill amd ending up with a player who doesn't play, and who's value as a consequence plummets. Our manager has never had access to the kind of finance he is enjoyed at Villa, and it would be difficult not to conclude that his inexperience has shown. What I can't understand is why, for so long, he talked about needing a bigger squad of players to compete, but when he finally had this squad, comprise almost exclusively of his own signings, he didn't use it. If, right from the beginning, he'd made up his mind that he wasn't going to bother with a deep squad, but was just going to concentrate on getting the strongest first XI possible, I could have seen the sense of it. I might well have wondered whether it was wise to put all your eggs in one basket like that, and questioned whether it was even possible to succeed in modern football without a squad. But at least from a financial perspective it would have made sense. And if you look at this way, if, last season, instead of having all those squad players who made virtually no contribution, we'd had two players of the standard of, for argument's sake, Milner (in whatever position they'd have been most effective), it would seem likely that we'd have finished fourth! A logical plan that suited the club's financial capabilities would have been methodically implemented, and I for one would have applauded. But instead we saw what actually happened, and to my mind it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and it looks for all the world like there isn't a coherent strategy in place. |
Matt T
said:
|
... I admit we are better than 11th and 16th but, on current circumstances, I would not rate us any higher than 6th based on our squad and manager. COULD we finish higher? Yes - we could have an amazing set of luck and finish top 4. Do I EXPECT us to finish above 6th? No. I have realistic expectations for us in the current league - we are a top 6 side, thus finishing in the top 6 is not really something we should be be sacking people for. What we want as a club is to finish above that and, in several seasons, we have looked like we would do so until falling away. THIS is the area where I think O'Neill needs to improve. How he will do that or whether he will do that is anyone's guess. I'm not going to pretend I'm a Premier League manager, but you would imagine it is probably about squad rotation. The big question here Damian is - what would you like to see as the target for next season? My opinion is that the target is top 4, but the expectation is top 6. |
villarobin
said:
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... Matt T - Brilliant point mate. O'neil has basically won the league for us for the last 3 years. Finishing anything higher than 6th which we have very nearly done would be nothing short of a miracle. People say "Yes but look at how much Oneil has spent" yes hes spent alot , but look at the position we were coming from. He has had to spend alot. The only way to progress above 6th is with BIG cash injections , such as £25mil for Milner.. |
Simeon
said:
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... villarobin There are only so many good players to go round. If Fabregas is at Barcelona, and Ronaldo is at Madrid, are they really going to battering Man City's door down? My opinion is that Gareth Barry isgood enough to play for a team that can challenge for the top honours. Is he good enough for a world XI? No, I don't think he is. But until Man City are in a position to buy the eleven best players in the world, I don't think Barry has anything to worry about. He won't survive if he gets complacent. That is obvious. But then avoiding such a scenario is one of the reasons he gave for leaving Villa, though the exact phrase he used was npt wanting to go stale. We obviously rate Barry's ability differently, and that's fine. What really matters is how the Man City manager rates him. Only time will tell how things will turn out. As for Milner having no loyalty to Villa, why should he? He's played three seasons for us. He didn't come up through the ranks. He's a Yorkshireman! His boyhood club was Leeds Utd! Even if there was loyalty in football, Milner being loyal to Villa couldn't possibly be taking for granted. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Villarobin Exactly. We have had to spend the money just to get back to where we were at 6th. It wasn't O'Neill's fault that he inherited a poor squad of people, and the reality is that if we can buy a James Milner every other year, and sell him for £10-15m profit (and then buy another replacement), then we are actually making progress (even if we stay at 6th for a few more seasons) rather than going backwards. The reason for this is that (sooner or later) we will eventually end up with an increasing level of player in our squad, which will lead to an eventual strengthening of league position. In 5 years more of this kind of development, we could be in the position of being able to attract and buy the amazing creative playmaker we all want, but the fact of the matter is this - this kind of progress takes time vs the methods that Man City have chosen to implement. Villa are an improving club in the sense that we are now consistent - this should be seen as moving forward, not staying still. The reason for this is every other team is actually trying to improve - we are not in a static league of people where nobody else invests, but we do. Therefore appearing to tread water can actually mean we are building for the future. Who here seriously believes our current squad is worse than the one O'Neill inherited (forgetting for a second the money spent)? |
Matt T
said:
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... Villabiker Hmmm... Location seems a bit of a strange thing (especially given the fact he has always played in London)... |
blake0121
said:
 |
... Milner said he wanted to leave Villa before the WC fair enough, so how come MON has only just decided to come out and say it now on the 22/07/10 why not as soon as England were knocked out of the world cup, whats so special about 22/07/10 deep down I knew Milner wanted to leave I just didn't want to believe it though. Villa are starting to look like a feeder club last season Barry now this season Milner at least we still got Young and Agbonlahor UTV |
villabiker
said:
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... matt T come on now j cole mouth works faster than his brain and to be honest thats not hard |
rocky5
said:
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...Who here seriously believes our current squad is worse than the one O'Neill inherited (forgetting for a second the money spent)?yes we`ve got a better squad but forget about the 140,000,000 mon has spent |
Az
said:
 |
... He can say goodbye to his England place He will sit on the bench for Man s**tty whilst getting payed a ridiculous amount of money for doing nothing. Can't really call it footballing reasons when they have achieved f**k all yet. What's funny is that in stark comparison, you have Diego Forlan of Athletico Madrid, 10x better player than Milner will ever be, and at aged 31 has probably got his last chance for a big move and yet he pledges his allegiance to his club. Maybe he is one of the few, but it seems like English players very rarely show this same loyalty. But whatever, as good as he has been for us, I really don't think he's 'top class'. If we get 30 mil then we will be the ones laughing. Come on Martin, let's turn this into a positive. Sell him for big bucks, bring in Ireland, Flamini and Keane and let's pip them to that Champions League spot this season |
Matt T
said:
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... Rocky5 The point I was making about forgetting the £140m was that most teams above us (barring Arsenal) have probably spent a good portion of that on players, and started from a significantly better standard of players than we did PS Villabiker matt T come on now j cole mouth works faster than his brain and to be honest thats not hard Ha ha ha - he ain't the sharpest tool no |
rocky5
said:
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... your the same monnettes who`ll be saying that we`re still progressing next season after we finish 7th because everton didn`t have the injury problems |
Matt T
said:
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... I personally think MON isn't the best manager for us, but I don't honestly know who is available (and would come to us) who would do a better job. In the meantime, I'll support the manager because I support the club - even if I don't think he is the man for the job - simply because a club that appears together is going to have a better impact on player morale than a crowd that boos O'Neill off the pitch. |
Rortyboy
said:
|
... It is surely ironic that the sale of Milner for twice what we paid for him is provoking a series of criticisms of our manager's transfer dealings. And the criticisms are based on speculations about what we might get for players we haven't sold. Why do you do it? |
walshy
said:
|
... yes but damian look at the squads and the squad sizes of the our rivals and us.everton have a more talented squad.all of the teams above us have far better squads.but under martin he has made decent players play at a very high level.such as milner. i agree totaly with ur opinion of jimmy that you have had in the past but to say we havnt improved is way off the mark.we were a mid table team at best and sometimes fighting to stay up but last season we were in the running for champions league football with 4 games to go! trust martin! |
jk92293
said:
 |
... DAJ and RortyBoy - very good points! we rarely use the media for ourtransfers and the reasons you belive fit like a jigsaw!...if there are the real reasons, of course!! i still think a quiet meeting between manager and player, and the manger bringing it up in public is far better PR for both club and player than the Barry fiasco. if/when he leaves, so be it, we will move on and i have no doubt we will push on with the new found wealth! Good luck to you Jimmy!! |
kohoutek
said:
|
... Simeon: We're saying basically the same thing. It will be tough, with the current squad to not lose ground this season. I'm not so sure our points total flattered us last year. If there were points we were lucky to get, there were also points we dropped that clearly we shouldn't have, and it probably all balanced out. Over 38 games, I think a team pretty much finishes where they deserve to. Regardless, even if we were to get fourth this year, City's money would still virtually guarantee they'll win something sooner than us, and, as we're both saying, that's why Milner's leaving. How much sooner they win something, how much they win, and whether we'll ever actually win anything...City would be the much safer bet from a player's perspective, will be more high profile, will have a better surrounding cast. For Milner, the only question would be how much he'll feature. And we know, if nothing else, that if he doesn't end up featuring, it won't be from lack of effort. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Rortyboy Exactly. Some fans criticise O'Neill when he spends too much money, then criticise him when he sells players for a profit. Milner was offered a contract. If he doesn't want it, the only option here it so sell him, so MON has done the best he can in the circumstances. |
Matt T
said:
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... Kohoutek, We can't blame players who have a 10 year window to win something to want to move for short term gain at a club that will (probably) do better in the short term. 10 years from now, most of the current player will be retired, but we will still be Villa supporters. This is because we are a) fans of the club and b) we have maybe 60-80 years to follow the club rather than a limited time to play for clubs we (perhaps) don't support or have any interest for. It's amazing people treat every footballer like they should be loyal to the club if they don't support it as a fan. After all, how many of us would jump ship if another company doubled our wages and offered us more glamorous surroundings/chances for success? Most of us I imagine... |
Matt T
said:
|
... Thinking of it this way (in terms of club loyalty)... Would we rather have 11 Zat Knight's, or 11 Olof Mellbergs's? One of those players was a fan of the club, the other was a great player who eventually moved on to a massive team. We need to decide if we want a less successful team made up of purely local lads who graft (essentially like a micro version of what MON already does) or a team that has success but may have players heads turned by other clubs... |
Rortyboy
said:
|
... Simeon - football is a game for teams not individuals - so it doesn't matter if there is a limited pool of players you rate - at the end of the day individuals don't win things: - look at Portugal, Argentina, England, and then on the other side Germany. Davies was injured. He came back, got injured again and went off for extended treatment. He was replaced and the replacement was improved - twice. He is coming back. He hasn't been sold. What are you talking about - do you watch Villa? |
villarobin
said:
|
... We are talking £25million pounds here.. Fabregas is going for that for gods sake. Milner for whatever reason has been made a media darling , but ask yourself is there actually that much substance in it ?? Is he really that good ? Much as i liked him playing for us , i thought he was MASSIVELY overrated, and this will come out in the wash. |
Matt T
said:
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... Villarobin I agree. Fabregas - World Cup Winner as a sub Milner - ummmm... got taken off within 30 minutes of his first match at the World Cup with a team who... well didn't do too well. The fact that City are even suggesting paying as much as they have paid for David Silva is, to me, frankly quite mental. We'd be insane to not sell him for that amount. |
Rortyboy
said:
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... People keep saying MON only buys grafters but then have a go at DJ and Emule for not working hard enough - which is it? Big John is also hardly an example of gut busting tearing up the pitch. I agree Milner is overrated - and said so at the end of last season. He was more of a problem than Stan because he chased the ball leaving Stan exposed in the middle. Stan didn't run out of legs he was just left covering the whole pitch because Milner was on the floor in the opposition penalty box. He might improve but he ain't no Fabregas. |
VillaDude
said:
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... Has anyone listend to the full interview with MON? When asked about McGeady and Robbie Keane MON doesn't dismiss either of them. Not his usual way... |
kohoutek
said:
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...Kohoutek, Rortyboy: I don't disagree at all. That's why i said we just have to accept the era, how a player is going to view his career, and know that as they come in to us, they will also go out. And that City are a much better short-term bet than we are. The only time I'd slag a player for moving is if he really ran down the club, did his business badly and in the press like Barry did, for no real reason. Even then, wouldn't be slagging the idea of the player wanting to move, just the manner in which he goes about it. |
rocky5
said:
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...villarobin said:really ??? last i heard arsenal had turned down 29 mill |
Simeon
said:
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... Rortyboy He hasn't been sold, but he is one of the surplus six. This is our problem. We are struggling to sell players we don't want to keep. Davies isn't going to play for Villa for two reasons. Dunne and Collins are now the established partnership, and with our manager believing in a settled team, that means Davies doesn't play. And even if he were to play, we would have to give him a more lucrative contract. So yes, Davies is still here, but that's not because the manager wants to keep him. Do you read about the Villa? And yes, I understand that in football the team is more important than the individual. I've made the point myself on a a few occasions. But in the best teams there are excellent individual players. Barcelona are a great team. Inter were a better team this season. But both have plenty of excellent individual players. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. But of course, no matter how important the individual is, and how much more so is the team, what is even more important is the wages being paid |
nix2
said:
 |
... Villa will come out above Citeh next year, mark my words. Teams are hard to come by, they take a long time to build, and one bad signing, bad ego upsets the whole team. Dreamteams don't work like they do on ProEvo, they take years to gel. Our team has gelled, we've lost a key figure, but rather than bringing in a replacement and turning it on its head, we already have one. Ash will be a much better player in the middle than Mlner. He's got a better delivery, he's faster, more agile and will run even longer and further, and Delph could now get his chance when he's fit. Citeh have failed to realise that Milner won Young Player of the Year last year, which means he's cursed for next season, so enjoy that one. So we need a winger so we can bring Ash into the middle, you wouldn't have thought that with all the transfer rumours. Milner has gone for the money, he gets nothing else. No chumps league, awareness of less game time and probably losing his England place, pure money. He would have taken the captaincy and could have taken us to the places he had ambitions for, thats what a loyal player does. He's completely f*cked up, and it'll be damn hard being that sort of workhorse with a huge hole in his foot. |
Dunford1983
said:
 |
... Im in a weird place. Gutted Jimmy's going, happy as a pig in s**t that we may have £30m for the trouble.... So, with that in mind. How best is that money spent? Im a massive believer in Delph. Injured he may be, but he WILL be a superstar - as long as he doesn't fall out of favour with MON - who does seem to have his favourites! Who else is out there that would be interested in joining a club that has just dealt a massive psychological statement to the rest of the premiership by readily accepting to let their best player leave? Perhaps MON will go and spend £20m on Jermaine Jenas?? i simply wouldn't be surprised! |
Longman
said:
 |
... I love it. MON buys a player that no-one would pay £12m and at the time is slated by many on this board for 'yet another bad signing', he takes said player and develops him in his position in his first season then sees his potential and moves him inside where he has an amazing season and breaks into the england team (not team, not squad). Man City then tap up the player (if you think this hasn't happened you are naive) and ensure the press are fully aware that they want him. They turn his head and we are looking to more than double our money on a player MON bought when no-one would risk £12m on him. And all this is MONs fault. Some of you crack me up. You should work in PR you are that good at spinning anti MON messages. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Kohoutek All I'd say about last season is that I watched an awful lot of Villa, and I watched quite a bit of Man City as well, having taken a keen interest in how an old Villa legend's fortunes fared. And Man City were so much better than we were. Of what little I saw of Spurs, the same could be said of them too. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that only finishing three points (or whatever it was) behind Man City last season flattered us. There is no doubt that we did a very good job of grinding out points against poor teams (of which there were more than usual in the Premiership last season), but I guess you can't rely on doing this every week. If you're living on the edge, there are going to be times when you do drop points against teams you 'should' beat. For my money, most of the time last season we didn't look much better than even the poorest teams in the Premiership - although I'd obviously accept that we got the results we wanted, by and large. Whereas Man City consistently looked much better than most of the teams they played. It's for these reasons that I think our points total relative to Man City's doesn't tell the whole story. |
Longman
said:
|
... As for Milner, it is a bad move and Barry will prove that this season. He moved there last year and they are already bringing in his replacements. He will struggle to get in the side next season due to the influx of new talent and should Milner get games this season, who's to say that next Jan or Summer that more high profile names will come in and James will be benched. I really liked Milner, I thought he had the ethic that football came first and he's banged his drum all season that the reason he is performing is stability at Villa - something he had never had in his career before. Can he expect stability at City? I doubt it. It's a merry-go-round of players and managers. Seems like he's just another player that when it boils down to it, is a mercenary and money talks. James, remember our very own Sidwell being at the top of his game playing week n week out then getting his head turned by big money Chelsea? Where has his career gone since. The lack of football ruined it and he is now the shadow of the player he was and even more so the player he should have become. Ask the question, is this, long term, the right move for your career? |
Simeon
said:
|
... By the way, I'd like to make it clear that I won't be criticisng our manager if he sells James Milner. Quite the opposite in fact. If Milner isn't sold, I will be asking serious questions as to why not. |
Simeon
said:
|
... VillaDude Why would we want Welbeck when we have Delfouneso? Longman You have to remember that Villa are the only 'big' team that doesn't rotate their squad. Barry will see plenty of action this season, and Man City are likely to be very successful. They will be competing on all four fronts, and as such they will need more than just eleven quality players. |
lucky4
said:
 |
... Im not really bothered about milner leaving anymore because i accepted it ages ago! Plus there are other players we can get for less money that would do well for us like bentley,flamini,ireland etc! Ive heard flamini is available for a mere 5m and i would be well happy with a midfield of bentley,petrov,flamini and downing with ash young supporting gabby in a free role! We will move on from milner just like we did with barry! |
kohoutek
said:
|
...For my money, most of the time last season we didn't look much better than even the poorest teams in the Premiership - although I'd obviously accept that we got the results we wanted, by and large. Whereas Man City consistently looked much better than most of the teams they played. It's for these reasons that I think our points total relative to Man City's doesn't tell the whole story. Do understand where you're coming from Simeon, and the whole "the football hasn't gotten better" mantra. There are lots of teams that play prettier football, yet finished behind us. Spurs and City do indeed look better than us, and do indeed have better rosters. You'll get no argument from me that they're better teams. But results are all that counts. If we get ugly points, they're worth the same as pretty points, and we held our own (most of the time) against superior opposition. The consistency of where we're finishing position-wise each season would seem to imply that it's not a fluke. It's the level of this team. Of course, we don't appear to be strengthening, and Spurs and City are kicking on, so if I were a betting man, I'd say something needs to change if we are going to keep up. But the style vs. effectiveness argument...I guess I'm saying I wouldn't mind if we played prettier football and won. I don't mind if we're not so pretty, and get results. But I think the way we "look" is at least as much a function of the style MON's looking to play as it is the quality of the side. Obviously the side could be improved. And there seem to be some moments when the players don't seem to be executing any particular plan. But I've also gotten the distinct impression that the very consistency of our style of play is a matter of intent, inviting teams in, soaking it up, looking for the 3-5 pass break and goal. Whether we do it well...sometimes yes, other times, no. And obviously, we look to play that way all the time, regardless of the situation or location. It's just seemed to me that there's strict direction about playing that way, and I've been under the impression that MON has been hammering at it until we get it right. To me, it would seem, as we all saw at the WC and in many other competitions, that this isn't madness, but a philosophy about making the most of limited resources, and trying to basically look like Germany did. Obviously, we've not succeeded in looking like Germany on any consistent basis, but it's seemed to me that was MON's idea. Anyway, very long-winded post, just saying that by and large I don't think the final table deceives too terribly much. But that doesn't mean we can expect the same results with the same squad this season. I would expect this same squad to lose ground unless some things happened like Gabby becoming clinical, young players making unexpected impacts, etc. |
runtingz
said:
|
... Simeon i am a big fan of MON but i can not disagree with any of the points in repounce .. i still think he could be the guy to take the club to the next level but he will have to learn from his his mistakes if he is going to achieve things at the club .. on the positive side with 6 games of last season remaining we could have finished 4th due to games in hand and the fact we had games against teams we where expecting to beat ..we fell short of course but he has so far improved the team each season ...so i stay optimistic |
bobvillian
said:
|
... if you were getting 50thou a week and someone else offers 100thou+ would you take it.sure you would.i dont blame milner one bit;lets face it 15mill+ is his true value.with a good manager he should be able to replace with better quality players with the money;but as we have not got a good manager anythink can happen?i would hope ireland is included in deal;he is talking in interview about mcreadey being premership class;surley he is having a laugh?See what i mean 8-10mill wasted already. |
DAJ
said:
|
... 25 -30 Million is only a good price for Milner, if the manager recieves the whole sum for strengthening. I have not seen anything that states he will, and i have a feeling that he wont. Just out of curiosity, what would you all think of Randy, if he decides to use some of it to pay of the clubs debt......to himself? Will you still be thinking everything out of his backside is gold? |
Jimbo Daventry Villa
said:
 |
... So once again an average player has been turned into an international buy Aston Villa, then at the first sniff of more money elsewhere he wants out. It just goes to show yet again how the English League is in ruins, bossed by the clubs with the most money. Whats the point in building a good side, only to lose your best performer to the highest bidder? It honestly makes me feel like turning my back on the game. However regardless of my feelings, I don't actually think the spotty faced gimp is that good, yes he had a good season but there is far better out there which would cost half of what we'd get for him. So spotty, good look enjoying the new massage bench seats with your fat arsed mate Gaz Baz. |
Longman
said:
|
... DAJ, yes I would. I am not stupid enough to think that Lerner just treats us as a toy. he was not born a Villa fan and he bought us as a business. BUT, what he has done since being here is terrific. He has taken us out of the doldrums, he has restored pride. He has let the heroes parade on the pitch, the heroes who were treated like dirt under Ellis. He has invested every transfer window. He has restored the insides of the ground to a great standard. He has restored the beautiful and historical Holte Pub which was left to ruin. He has bought us flags, banners laid on coaches to games. We are not a funking charity tho and I don't blame him for wanting something back. And if you think any different you seriously need to get a bit of balance and perspective. |
The Droyd
said:
 |
... This is all a little bit pathetic. Of course it is disappointing when one of our best players wants to leave but why criticise Citeh? Lets' be honest we would love it if we were as rich as them. Milner isn't that brilliant and at £30 mill we will come out of it the best. |
b30 villain
said:
 |
... I just wish they would f**kin hurry up and get their bid in. Im sick to f**kin death of it already |
kohoutek
said:
|
... Matt T: Sorry...doing a bit of multitasking (ie, supposedly working), not reading as thoroughly as i should. |
Custard K3
said:
 |
... Its not like city need to sign milner. Personly i think MON should of snatched the £20m out of Mancini's hand and ran away laughing. What if city think they aint being held to ransom by a rival club thats desperate for thier cash and go elsewhere? Where does that leave us in regards to new players? I'm slightly concerned we wont see any new faces at villa next season at all UTV SOTC |
Rortyboy
said:
|
... Progress Simeon progress. You are right that the wages paid are the best indicator of the likely position of a club over a period of time. And you are right that teams matter more than individuals even though fans like to see individuals signed whose only merit is they have done well in another team. The question about Davies is what happens if Dunne breaks his leg on Saturday and Collins tweaks his hamstring - as he said he did at the end of last season. The definition of who is surplus changes. |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
 |
... I dont want a Judas in my team, therefore i'd be more than happy to take the 30 million. Thing is... i have NO confidence WHATSOEVER that MON will be able to replace Milner. Even with 30 million to spend, he'll still be looking around in search for bargain basement prices. He wont go straight to Van Der Vaart or Ozil and offer their clubs exactly what they want (like a normal person would). He'll probably spend it all on squad players and come September, he'll have spent around 7 million on the player he expects to fill in for Milner. MON wont get this right, i guarantee you he will f**k it up! UTV! |
yorkie
said:
 |
... with all this speculation and name calling of milner who i am sad to see leave us, then alot of people saying ashley young is going too have a brilliant season we will be in the same situation this time next season with a young. its always the way we discover a good player dwight yorke,olaf mellberg,gareth barry,james milner only for a club with more money to steal them of us.i think salarys should be capped then we would see if a player really wants to play for the club. |
bobvillian
said:
|
... no way man c will pay 30mill. 22-25mill max.trying to get rid of our fringe players will be our hardest job with the high wages they are on.another player i would not mind is nzobia for 8-10mill.far better than mcreadey and with premership experience. |
Andy D
said:
 |
... I really can't understand why Milner wants to join Man City. It really will be a bad career move because they have just too many players. He will find himself competing with Adam Johnson for the right wing role. Many players have left Villa Park thinking that the grass is greener but how many have found it was? Failures I believe include Hodge, Southgate, Bosnich, Staunton (before he came back), Solano and Barry. All of these could have been Villa legends but they got greedy. |
Vainn
said:
 |
... dissapointed by Milner's willingless to leave, i thought he was more loyal. but i guess money can blind anyone. if he goes to City and sits on the bench for most of the season, it will be a pity for him cause he's a footballer still developin. and he would keep doin that here a lot better, by bein one of our better players. anyway, if we get anythin from 25M+ ill be happy. just hope the money will be invested good then! |
VillaDude
said:
|
... Macini hopeful on Milner transfer... http://www.skysports.com/story...12,00.html Let's hope it sorted early next week, then we can finally buy some one! |
VillaDude
said:
|
... To me, Given doesn't sound that keen on signing Milner... City goalkeeper Shay Given, a former team-mate of Milner's at Newcastle, believes the midfielder is a quality player. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Rortyboy You know as well as I do that if Dunne and Collins get injured, our manager will keep on picking them regardless! But seriously, if first-teamers get injured, then the backup players will get some games. This is of course true, because some injuries cannot be played through, and we have an obligation to put eleven players out on the pitch. But with relation to Davies, even if we get injuries, I don't see him playing because of this clause in his contract. If Dunne and Collins were to both get injured, Cuellar would play at centre back and be partnered either by Beye or Clark. I would think even someone like Nathan Baker would get a game rather than Davies, because it simply makes no sense bringing a guy into the team for a couple of games, but having to then pay an extra ten grand a week, or whatever it might be, in wages. As things stand, I'd say that, at best, Davies is sixth choice centre back (Dunne, Collins, Cuellar, Beye, Clark, maybe even Luke Young and Baker). And you simply don't keep a guy like that around to be sixth choice. He has been told he can leave when a decent offer comes in. I hope we sell him for whatever we can get, because there is no point in him staying here and not being picked. The sensible thing to do would be to renegotiate his contract. Actually, I'm not sure why this hasn't been done, because the current situation is bad for both Villa and the player himself. But unfortunately the sensible thing is to foten not done. |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... Whatever we get for Milner, offer ALL of it for Ozil. Werder Bremen want 15 million. Offer them 25 million and hes ours. I know it sounds like someone playing Football Manager - paying ten million more than his asking price but its our best chance in getting ahead of the bigger clubs. Mesut Ozil, on the last year of his contract is the greatest opportunity we will have for a long time. We need to take advantage of this chance or we will seriously regret it. He will be the best player in the world, mark my words. UTV! |
McParland
said:
 |
... Thats another judas going to join barryat Man City it seems.But the truth is once a player does not want to realy stay at a club anymore its best to let them go knowing that in all probability they will no perform as they shouldor as they did when first at a club trying to make a name.If MON can get the best price and bring in a few decent players with the money especialy players who want to *play for the club and badge instead of just the big wages* then i for one would be very happy to see him move on preferably walking along spagetti junction with a wooden crucifix so any fans meeting him can nail him to the cross. |
Lukekel
said:
 |
... I can understand milner wanting to go to city.... money, title ambitions....er...money. Saying that though, I still feel he should still have some sort of loyalty towards villa and MON, who has had him settled and performing consistently well. Who reckons he will start 3 England games at euro 2012, if he ends up on city's bench for the next couple of seasons? Trying not to hammer him but can't help feeling bitter! So, cheers for last season james..... now go and F**K OFF up north and join that other P***K !!! |
DanWilson82
said:
|
... Why hasn't Mon gone straight out today and put a bid of 30million in for Lionel Messi??? What a complete idiot, we are doomed |
frosty
said:
|
... On a side note, here is another prime example as to why our international side is s**te. Milner can join SWP and Barry on the bench and watch all of the foreigners show them how it's done.. then try and do it for England and fail yet again. Even when / if he does play for City they will expect more than just an engine, bad move Jimmy (or James as I will be calling you from now on). |
DAJ
said:
|
... Longman, I dont think that everything that comes out of his backside is gold. In fact, i will be livid if martin does not recieve the full amount for Milner. Thats not because i dont like Randy, its because we are that blooming close to having a very decent team. If that cash is used for the three quality players i think we need, then Randy will have his money back and more besides!! Weve been here many times before under HDE. We get close to having a decent side, only to see the financial backing to eveporate. We then fall away by the roadside, and its been this way ever since we won the euro Cup. We get the opportunity to kick on, then we dont take the risk of kicking on.....its blooming frustrating!!!! Im glad we have Randy. I know a few little things about Ellis from ex players that will make you cry with anger. Randy is not HDE!! But i hope he does the right thing this time, because that cash could make all the difference. And like you, i am very grateful for what he has done, and i do believe his heart is in the club. But Martin needs all that cash. Then its down to him, and thats a different story!! |
Chrisodon
said:
 |
... Aero-4-Villa. Not having a dig but spunking 25 Mil on a guy when we need 3 isn't exactly logical, I'd absolutely love him but at 15 - 17 Mil then spread the rest around. But Mon won't even consider looking at a player over 5 mil from outside of england. So who's available in england for 12 mil or under that Mon can save ?. Bentley i think will deffo turn up at Villa this year. |
fastbackace
said:
 |
... i think most of u are missing the real point of this sale... as it has been 2 summers in a row now that we have sold our best player. WE ARE A SELLER CLUB. |
simondgm
said:
 |
... £30m is fantastic business and we can make strides with that. we should see more of delph next year who can strengthen the midfield adequately - not the finished article but he can develop. i rate milner but he's definitely not world class - we'll move on without him. |
PONGO
said:
 |
... we must be positive and move on man city are on another planet at the moment but it wont last forever.man u sold ronaldo milner is no ronaldo hes not a great player just a good player only not worth 25m and we will move on to better things.The money will be invested into the squad we have good owners who love the club and always they support there manager they are improving aston villa on a whole.Iam proud to be a villian,Doug ellis did what he could and i thank him now randy is moving us in the right direction if man city didnt come along with all there money we wouldnt be having this debate but thats life we just have to keep striving to be better within our means we dont want to be another leeds we can still compete look at everton they are a well run club like ourselves and they compete but money wise we are stronger than them if we spend wisley we will be succesful |
frosty
said:
|
...i think most of u are missing the real point of this sale... If Vidic leaves Man U this summer you could throw exactly the same statement at them, I don't think anyone is missing that point but what are we supposed to do about it? |
bobby b
said:
 |
... this is what the general has just siad: (General Krulak here: 1. Regarding James Milner: No matter what happens re. Milner...and NOTHING has been decided...I promise!! James has conducted himself as a true professional. He has kept his head down and is watching what happens with interest. He has worked his socks off for us and I have a lot of respect for the man. 2. The following net spend data for the past couple of years is garnered from the financial records of the applicable Clubs: a) ManCity: 230M b) Chelsea: 112M c) Aston Villa: 102M d) L'pool: 95M e. Spurs: 66M f) Everton: 23M g) Arsenal: have made 14M profit by selling players I mention this as an indication that Randy has never given up on the Club and has proven that he is willing to spend. Right now the issue, as I mentioned, is getting a handle on the wage bill. Both MON and Randy understand the importance of this) LERNER OUT!!!! |
churchill
said:
 |
...But results are all that counts. If we get ugly points, they're worth the same as pretty points, and we held our own (most of the time) against superior opposition. The consistency of where we're finishing position-wise each season would seem to imply that it's not a fluke. It's the level of this team. Thanks kohoutek. The paragraph I've quoted above, and the rest of the post is insight of a very high order. I feel the same way as you about the team. Soaking up pressure doesn't faze them. And they're always ready to break. The comparison to Germany is not fanciful. It's as well to remember that this style of play is very demanding on fitness and commitment - hence O'Neill's preference for " British" qualities. Some of you seem upset by the notion that we're a "selling" club. Don't be. Letting go players who want to leave is a good policy, especially when the price is right. It's served Spurs well - and even Man U. If Milner goes, we will probably buy some players. I'd be happy if we didn't. I think we've got a good squad and some very exciting youngsters coming through. I think O'Neill is right not to rush them. Keane et al doesn't ring my bell. McGeady does and I hope O'Neill signs him if we sell Milner. Young, Gabby and McGeady in the same forward line, plus Downing. A mouth-watering prospect. If Villa become successful it will be because we've shown character and not simply gone out and bought it. Suits me. |
fastbackace
said:
|
... frosty... if a player has a good year... and in the summer he might get linked away... maybe offer him a new contract before the season ends... tie that bitch down for a good 5 years. |
fastbackace
said:
|
... http://www.guardian.co.uk/foot...ston-villa this might interest some people... |
Aero-4-Villa
said:
|
... Chrisodon, Its not as though selling Milner is or ever was compulsory in order to buy new players. MON already has money available to him for buying players like Bentley, he does have some form transfer funds and i'd imagine its a pretty respectable amount. Therefore, i dont think the money we get from Milners sale should be considered in relation to buying squad players. It just happens that Milner is about to be sold, so i think we should use all that money we get on bringing in one huge player. Just think of it like the player we buy with Milners money was there all along! UTV! |
r0bb0
said:
 |
... You don't need to be wearing claret and blue tinted glasses to recognise that Villa have progressed in recent years, you just need to be objective. Over the past thirty years there have arguably been two periods when Villa have performed at a similar level to the last 3 years. In the 5 years 95 - 99 we finished between 4th and 7th each year albeit the points gap between us and the top of the league increased in each of those years. In the 4 years 89 - 92 we were 2nd twice albeit with a 7th and 17th in between. Over the past 30 years our average position has been 10th. In the past 3 years we have been 6th each year and the points gap between us and the top of the table has reduced for each of the last 4 years. Whatever colour spectacles you wear it's a fact that the last 3 years have been amongst Villa's best. We all want better still, but why wouldn't a Villa fan want to at least recognise that things have improved? |
Forest Hill Villan
said:
 |
... Thanks Churchill for providing some much needed perspective on this subject. |
churchill
said:
|
...... It interested me. I love these sagas. Friendship and appreciation...betrayal and acrimony. Do you actually think you're ever going to see this kind of drama at Small Heath. They are just not interesting enough. It's the curse of being a nose. Move along now... nothing to see here. And some of you morons have the nerve to criticise O'Neill. Be grateful - it's bread and circuses. |
TheDiamond
said:
|
... If this is true then Milner is embarrassing himself and clearly lying through his teeth. It's important to note however that the article contains no actual quotes from Milner. It's hard to know what to believe isn't it? |
Gaz
said:
 |
... Delphs time has come.and 25 million? yes please! This is what we need,Dwight done it,Barry done it,now Milner.He wont be the last,So what,were in a better posistion if spent well.Up the Villa. |
richie
said:
 |
... http://www.guardian.co.uk/foot...ston-villa I was afraid this was going to turn into a dramatic saga. MON seems like a straight shooter, I highly doubt he would say the club offered Milner a new contract if they didn't. He also never said in the article Milner wants to leave, but that his agent said they wouldn't sign a new contract. To me, sounds like Milner's agent may be the one who's getting James to leave for money and not football. Milly get a new Mr. 10%!!!  -R |
kohoutek
said:
|
... Thanks fastbackace for the link. Thanks Churchill for the kind words. Bread and circuses indeed... Two players who MON has featured and have flourished, gone from the fringes to England starters, two players who've had their heads turned by the same club that's pummeling his efforts with a cash club. What's interesting is that, as always, MON is very careful with his words. "Intimated" and "I think" and "If that's the case..." He never actually says straight out that "a" or "b" is the case, distances himself, and says he thinks something will be done. He's left room for Milner to stay. Milner might be upset, but at what, I wouldn't know, other than maybe he's not liking having his very obvious coyness called out for what it is. Milner's "wait-and-see" attitude most likely "intimated" very well that he wasn't rejecting the interest, wasn't interested in pledging his immediate future to Villa, wasn't inclined to continue embracing the manager about whom he'd said so many nice things. Which is probably all our Martin needed to hear. Or not. Off with you, then, James. My daughter and I cheered your name week in and week out, giggled with glee when you set up an England goal. Now, well, you'll just be another player. No harm in that, but no longer in our hearts. If we do get Ireland as makeweight, we'll have gotten the better of City twice. |
frosty
said:
|
...http://www.guardian.co.uk/foot...ston-villa Really interesting article, makes you wonder though how 2 blokes who work together didn't know what the other was thinking? Another interesting read.. City fans are suggesting MON has forced Milner out.. utter tosh but it clouds the fact they are trying to buy success.. http://blogs.soccernet.com/man...er_a_b.php |
rodders
said:
 |
... lol you make me laugh, players in our hearts its VILLA, the fooking crest and all that no players is bigger than the villa and dont you forget that lads players come and go, i dont give a monkeys about our players, i just want villa to win things and win things the right way, not the man s**tty way up the villa |
DAJ
said:
|
... Nice link Frosty! I found the write up fairly well balenced for an outside view. I especially liked this bit:- Villa can have the Stephen Ireland of last year. The Stephen Ireland of 2008-09 should cost Villa Milner plus cash. If the Irishman goes and if O'Neill gets the best out of him it will be a stunningly good bit of business by Villa. Couple of ifs in that sentence but O'Neill is a good manager. Sounds like they are saying we are getting the better deal, and one that may come back and haunt them |
DAJ
said:
|
... General Krulak 3) It is so easy to boil everything down to "sell to buy" but it is not that simple...selling may involve much more than just getting money to spend...it, first and foremost, has to do with ongoing wage bill. Why does this statement worry me? And does this inhibit the manager on the number of players he can bring in, aswell as the type of player? |
walshy
said:
|
... really lads come on...take a step back and look at our club. we are in a very strong position! many clubs would love to be where we are today... remember the days of o'dreary and "our good bunch of lads", who would of dreamt that back then we could even try and sell a player for 30 million and be in europe on a consistant basis,never mind us acatually geting past the 3rd round of the cups! we should be happy with were we are....yes strive to get better but not get bogged down with this negativity. |
Matt T
said:
|
... DAJ, The point Krulak is making is it's all very well getting £30m from the Milner sale, but if we continue to have say 10 surplus players (Shorey/Sidwell/Luke Young/Davies/Beye etc) all on £30k a week, then that £300k a week is going to dent the club continuously, as opposed to spending out a player. That's over £1m a month. It is common practice that transfer payments are made in payments like a loan (with the exception of people like Chelsea/Man City who are massively cash rich), so if £30m got paid over 3 years, then simply owning 10 unused players at £30k a week is going to eat up all of Milner's transfer fee. All the board are speaking is simple economics - getting paid transfer fees means nothing if you have a squad comprised of say 17 well paid players who will be used and 10 well paid players who won't be - those 10 players will suck in and swallow all of the profits for even the biggest transfers we could make. To put it into perspective, keeping Shorey/Sidwell/Luke Young/Davies/Beye (and that's hardly an exhaustive list) would have eaten up half of Barry's transfer fee just for last year. Of those 5 players, did any of them really play much? Basically, they have been paid £6m (and probably more) between them just to sit on the bench. If we continue to operate with these expensive deadweights on our bench, then we can sell a James Milner every year, and with a £12m profit, we have wasted half of that on keeping a bench (or in some cases not even on the bench) full of players who either a) don't play and/or b) aren't good enough. On that premise - the sooner we kick out the deadwood, the better. Milner going will bring us money in, but till we get rid of the Shorey/Sidwell/Luke Young/Davies/Beye players of this club, we will continue to be burning any transfer fees we get. |
Matt T
said:
|
... To put it into perspective. Buying Sidwell and Luke Young, added to their salaries for the club will have cost more for us in total cost than if we get £30m from Man City for Milner. The bottom line is this - we need to stop buying players who are not going to feature. I appreciate we had players who were used as stepping stones to develop our squad (Sutton, Harewood, Knight), but played like Sidwell and Luke Young have hardly featured at all after being brought in to just do that. Yes, we need to buy increasing levels of players to develop (we are not top of the game yet), but we need to buy players who will play, rather than expensive bench warmers. If O'Neill wants to operate on a smaller squad, use our current squad, and pad it out with youngsters, and save the money on having players like Sidwell et al sitting on our bench sucking the club dry of cash liquidity. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Bobby B, Lerner Out? On what basis? That the figures you've shown actually show we have been the 3rd biggest spenders (behind two clubs that have owners that are massively richer than ours) C'mon fella - to suggest we should get rid of Lerner because MON has a bunch of overpaid players on the wage bill is ridiculous. Lerner leaves MON to do the football side of the business - he didn't buy Sidwell, nor did he know if the bloke was worth £50k a week or not. He is the chairman, not the manager. If you want someone to criticise for how the finances are managed, have a go at our manager - it is evident that he has free reign of whatever funds are given to him. The reality of Lerner saying "Hold up Martin, we need to streamline wages" is more indicative of a bloated and unused squad, than the guy not dipping in his pocket. As I've said before, transfer fees are relatively irrelevant in comparison to the wages that the player will receive. Why else do you think people like Sidwell managed to get a great contract at Chelsea? It was because they didn't have to pay for the bloke. It's the same reason why Liverpool could afford to recruit Cole. The biggest cost for Villa is the recruitment of players who are not going to be used. £5m for a £50k a week player, soon becomes a £17.5m cost when it's a 5 year contract. As for the player - can you blame Sidwell for sitting on his contract? Don't you think he knows other clubs are not going to be mad enough to pay £50k a week for him? As well as that, look at NRC - if he sits on his contract till the end of the season, he can leave for nothing - which will be the primary way he will be able to maintain his high wages at the next club (because the "buying" club won't have to pay out a fee so it will go into the contract) I really wish people would get off Lerner's back just because he balances the books, and talks about the importance of a wage bill. It's like a lot of people here either a) don't understand how business works, b) think that Villa is actually run with some sort of bottomless pit of money that Lerner has or c) both of the above. |
Matt T
said:
|
... DAJ, Basically what they are saying there is that it is in the interests of the club to get rid of our spare players, even if we don't get massive fees for them, simply because the drip drip of payments of salaries to these people are constantly sucking money out of the club. I would rather sell Sidwell for £2m now, because in 40 weeks time (based on a £50k a week salary), instead of getting £2m now, we will have actually spent £2m on him. At that point it would have actually made financial sense to get rid of him for free if nobody wanted him. The problem here is that we have lots of these sorts of players, and the more time goes by, the more the £10m spent on Davies, quickly becomes 3 years of paying out say £40k a week, meaning the bloke has actually cost us £16m, and will probably only sell for £4m tops, meaning there was a net cost of £12m on the player, not just a £6m loss. |
.vogra
said:
|
... The thing that disappoints me more about Milner is that I stupidly thought he was different to the majority of footballers currently out there, what i mean is i thought he loved playing more than seeing the pounds signs. So where's he going to play, they have Kompany,Viera,Barry,De Jong,S W Phillips who all play in his position. James, i stand by what i said yesterday, your a money grabbing cnut, you could have been a legend down Villa Park, but now, nah mate..enjoy your money. Also on a final note, If i was O'Neill id go to Man City and say this is the price £30mill, no negotiation, he's under contract for another two years, get the blessing off Learner that if they don't meet the valuation then stick him in the stands for two years....but unfortunately it doesn't work like that does it lads. |
Az
said:
|
... If Milner goes for the rumoured 24mil and we bring in Flamini for the rumoured 4mil, that would be ridiculously good business. Should be cheeky and say 24mil + Ireland though |
Chiefy
said:
|
...Aston Villa midfielder James Milner is reportedly fuming after manager Martin O’Neill publicly said he wanted out. Well if you didnt want out you thick yorkshire p***k why didnt you sign a contract ? why has it taken you all summer to decide ? why didnt you come out in the press before now and say you are happy at Villa ? why didnt you ask for a new contract like Young did ? why do you continue to try to make yourself look like the "good honest lad" everyone thinks you are we really we all know your a money grabbing little w****r who cares nothing for the game but more the size of your wallet, you are going to a team who will purchase all the trophies they can and if you think that makes you a great your wrong very very wrong !!! You have made your bed now you lie in it you fcuking weasel !! You have kicked sand in the managers eye after he turned you from a s**t winger into a decent midfielder and now you want try and make out you didnt ask for the move, consider this you t**t, by not signing a new contract, by not telling the manager or the fans you wanted to stay that by default suggests you would like to leave, and that is before anyone has spoken to you. Or did you expect us to let your contract run down so you could leave for less next season ?? FCUK OFF MILNER we will move on and become stronger you have your move now stop whining like a bitch and take your place on the bench at wastelands ! |
Andy
said:
 |
... Am I right in thinking that Milner told MON that he did not want to sign a new contract and wanted to consider his options, before the WC and MON is also on record as saying that Milner and his agent told MON that he wanted to leave. So how has Milner held everyone to ransom here. He told MON ages ago that he wanted to go. THe only people that have been keeping this information from us is the club. For some reason MON has now come out and made it public and it appears James Milner was not even consulted about when this was made public. James Milner, or any player for that matter is allowed to say they would like to go, if the club are willing to accept termination of the contract. So before we start bashing Milner, lets ask the questions of MON and the club as to why they held onto this info. I reckon that they have been waiting to see if they can get a replacement, but now City have said they can wait MON has had to come out now to rekindle City's interest to get things moving now, so that we can sign other players.  |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Looks like L.Young is off. Andy -- I dont care that Milner wants out that is not my problem, my problem is that milner is now "demanding talks after MON said he wants to walk out" I dont understand, what do you call it Milner you want to leave, you told MON before the world cup according to the press, MON kept him to himself with hope he could convince you to stay as you are a "good honest lad" obviously the bright lights of wastelands and the promise to by a medal or two is to much for you and now you want to move. lets ask the questions of MON and the club as to why they held onto this info because they can and it would make no difference to anything even if it was public knowledge, now everyone knows we will have money after the sale of Milner which means an extra million gets added to everyone we want. We cant fault MON for any of this it is not his fault Milner wants out and i can imagine MON thought he could convince Milner |
Chiefy
said:
|
... the application has gone in for the new north stand http://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk/Northgate/DocumentExplorer/documentstream/documentstream.aspx?name=public:0901487a80bc4a67.pdf&unique=452228&type=eplprod_DC_PLANAPP http://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning Applications On-Line&TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&PARAM0=452228&XSLT=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/BirminghamNew/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&FT=Planning Application Details&PUBLIC=Y&XMLSIDE=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/BirminghamNew/Menus/PL.xml&DAURI=PLANNING |
Andy
said:
|
... Chiefy...I accept you could be right that Milner is just a money grabbing glory hunter. However lets also open our minds to the possibility that Milner was sold a vision of the future by MON when they signed Milner. Most footballers want to progress and I suppose play for the biggest teams. It's a fact that today Man City are one of the biggest teams with a very good chance of winning everything on offer. Yes, I agree they have bought he success, but don't all teams. It just takes some longer than others. In modern football, it's no longer enough just to have a good manager. Anyway I digress a little. So, what if Milner has sat down with MON, which we know he has on at least a couple of occasions to discuss matters and has come to the conclusion Villa are not going where he personally would like. All I am saying, is we can speculate all we like as to why Milner said to MON that he did not want to renew his contract, but to start getting abusive towards a player is really schoolyard behaviour. I understand this is the behaviour of many football fans, but it does not make it right. Did we not do the same to Newcastle by the way when we signed Milner. Are we also now doing the same with Aiden McGeady. McGeady says he wants to leave Celtic and now MON is bigging him up and saying he'd love him at VP. Stinks of hypocracy to me. |
DAJ
said:
|
... Matt T, I understand most of that, but whats the point of reducing the wage bill only to bring in another three players that will be on a higher wage? You see, if we are to have three players that can walk straight into the side, then those three players have to be top quality, and top quality wont come if they are not paid top wages... This leads to the recruitment of players whom will only sit on the bench for 30k a week, putting us back to square one! I have a strong suspicion that we wont see any arrivals this summer. Simple economics dictates that. Oh well, at least we have the Holte pub and Emile Heskey |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Cardozo plays for benfica from paraguay and has scored 65 goals in 84 games for Benfica |
DAJ
said:
|
... The best thing in all this, is that Ashleys and Gabbys contracts run out in 2012. So far, as im aware....no advance has been made by the club to tie them down, so expect all this to be part of next summer aswell Whos in charge of our club, Billy Smart? |
Chiefy
said:
|
... he out scored Falcao, of porto who we have been linked to, and won their version of the golden boot he scored 26 goals in 29 appearances last year in the league |
VillaDude
said:
|
... I think MON is desperate to sign players, and he is stuggling due to the sell to buy policy. No one is buying Shorey, Davies, Sidwell etc for any decent money... I think he see's 30m for Milner as too good to turn down, and help improve the squad in at least 3 places. Maybe he is trying to push Milner out..? |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Andy -- I agree it is School yard, however my frustration is not with Milner as such, althought it hurts more when its your club, it is with the game, the league and the big wigs at the FA. I hate what money has done to the game and find it ironic that the fa can allow a club to go to the wall and implode, portsmouth, and yet they can allow another, citeh, to purchase what is the biggest league in the world. You are right if it where rooney going to madrid, mcgeady coming to us, torres going to mk dons I would laugh my socks off but it hurts more when it is your own. I want to go back to the time when management, skill, tatics, strength, fitness and bottle was what won you games not money. Football had a passion back then, the only passion now is for money and it stinks ! |
Andy
said:
|
... Chiefy.....It's not worth looking at that planning application, unless your an architect geek like me It's only an application for minor refurbishment works and moving a few walls here and there. It's not an application that's increasing the capicity of the ground. I do wonder why an application to increase the capacity of the ground has not been done at the same time though. Is it that any increased capacity plan has now been shelved...? |
Andy
said:
|
... Chiefy...I am all with you on your comment 260. The missis and myself watched the Cloughie documentary the other night. She's a Wednesday fan (silly girl) and said it was much better in those days. There was passion about playing the actual game and it wasn't about what glossy mag you could get your photo in with the latest blonde WAG. The problem is, is that it's not football that has just made it like this. It is society in general. A lot of people have for too long now loved the culture we are in. |
Chiefy
said:
|
...Is it that any increased capacity plan has now been shelved...? no thats just all i could find |
bobvillian
said:
|
... MON will not get 30mill. 22-24millmax then leave it up to our boss to WASTE THE f**kING LOT |
Villa_Chris
said:
|
... Love it...Cloughie putting the ash trays down for each player in the dressing room before the game... |
Simeon
said:
|
... I don't think anyone is saying that things haven't improved in the last four years. That's what happens when you invest the huge amounts of money that Lerner has. The issue is whether the resources that have been given to the manager have been used well. My answer to that is no. But even that is in the past now. What matters is the future. And the future doesn't look good. We have a squad of questionable quality, filled with players who are either not remotely good enough, or who will not be picked by the manager. And most of these players we are stuck with, because they are on good contracts and aren't going to move unless it suits them. Milner represents one of very few opportunities the club has to generate significant transfer funds. If we accept Man City's final offer (and unfortunately that looks like it might be a big if), then we have the opportunity to strengthen the team. If Milner stays, we're essentially stuck with what we've got - which wasn't good enough to finish in the top four last season, and in all likelihood won't be good enough to finish in the top six next season. It is very clear to me that what Lerner has done is authorised spending beyond the club's means in these last four years, in a calculated attempt to achieve Champions League football. I don't think the levels of spending have been dangerous (even if huge amounts of money have been wasted), but I do think that the big spending days are over for the time being. What this means is that it will become clear to more and more people that it was Lerner's/Villa's money that has driven the progress of the last four years rather than the talents of our manager. Our manager has spent alot of money on assembling a group of his own players. He has the players to work with (or use as chips on the transfer market), and it's up to him to get on with it. |
Alan fron Aussie
said:
 |
... If we are to buy a couple of decent players why not take the 24m NOW and let the p---k go and get on with life, or I can see us arguing all next week and und up with nothing and having to keep him. Then what happens is we will HAVE to sell him in Jan for a lot less, or wait till his contract runs out and we get nothing. Just take what we can now,get the 3 players that we need before time runs out and get on with life |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Now if the press are to be believed it would seem we have a choice: 14 million + Ireland 20 million + Onhoua 24 million 10 million + SWP These are a few of the players that are being looked at to be shipped out of wastelands, add Bellend who will go spuds and Santa Cruz to the list as well. But they seem like what offers we could arrange or ask for. So what would you pick ??? 10 Million + Onhoua + Ireland would be mine |
Chiefy
said:
|
...we're essentially stuck with what we've got - which wasn't good enough to finish in the top four last season, come on we were not far off be fair I can tell you the games and the reasons as to what cost us last season if you want but be fair ! |
Rortyboy
said:
|
... Simeon - if you were a journalist then the question would be where are the quotes - that is where are the substantial facts to back up your speculation. It is all based on a kind of mind-reading of what Lerner intended. Absolute Nonsense. And how is doubling Milner's value bad business by MON. Did Lerner move him to centre mid? Ashley Young is worth more than we paid. Gabby would go for a lot as well. If you didn't have anti-MON issues you would have considered these achievements. |
Andy
said:
|
... Just read the actual words of MON again. MON uses the word 'intimated' when he says Milner and his agent intimated they he wanted to leave. That's not at all the same as saying he 'wants' to leave. As we know for a fact (because MON has said so) that Milner wanted to wait to consider his options before signing a new contract, I can only assume that MON takes this request to consider his contract as an intimation that he wants to leave. I may be wrong here obviously, but it does not look very good that MON is coming out in public and not using whole truths, but using political style words and language. MON is adamant that he has not spoke with Milner since that last meeting, before the WC. So if that is the case, how the hell does MON know that Milner has not considered the contract and wants to commit to Aston Villa. Surely if I was the manager I would be speaking to my players all the time about things. It sounds really Mickey Mouse that our manager has not spoke to a player about such important things. What the hell is going on at Villa Park exactly. Do they not speak to each other. How many times now has MON said something along the lines of 'I've not spoke to the player about it' when talking about his players. Start bloody talking toyour players them MON and keep them informed. They are football players MON. They are paid to play football. You are paid to manage and in that you have to actually manage for gods sake. I get a feeling MON is now starting to do a DOL and lose the plot. |
Steve-o83
said:
 |
... Got to question why the club always seems to do somthing like this after season tickets have been sold every year? Before the world cup the talks with Milner were positive. Shock horror season tickets are sold and away he goes. We will never make top 4 if we keep selling our best players you keep the best and build around them. Surely anyone can see thats the way to build a top 4 team. We seem to spend enough money on the stadium year after year lets put that towards the squad and move forward! |
RayK
said:
 |
... Lots of well considered posts on here. I'm firmly in the camp of if we can get £24m+ for Milner then off he goes and good riddance to him. I do share the concern of what MON is going to do with that cash - if £10m is going straight on McGeady then we're totally fooked. Whilst many of us on here would like to see O'Neil brining in some top quality international signing - Huntelaar - that just isn't going to happen and he has to invest it in the best English talent available. I'm not going to pretend I know them but I'd much rather O'Neil invests £8m on a top quality 17 year old like Connor Wickham of Ipswich who is very likely to be the next big thing, than £10m on McGeady. I'd also like to see some of the dead wood go too. Why we ever bought Beye I do not know but he, Sidwell, Luke Young and Shorey just have to go. I'd like to keep Davies as he has time on his side and I do still think he could make it. I just want the Milner sale goes through quickly as I think its holding up a lot of these other transfers. |
Andy
said:
|
... Both MON and Milner said before the WC that they would be discussing the issue of contracts after the WC. So if MON says he's not spoke with Milner since before the WC, how the hell can Milner let MON know if he does or does not want to sign a new contract. Someone is telling big fat porkies. How about this for a conspiracy theory. MON has to sell before he buys. He's already stated that this would be the case. So what if he wants certain players but does not have the money. Who does he sell to get a stack of cash in. The only ones worth a load of cash are Young and Milner. Which one would we all sell first. Yes you got it right. So, MON knows a club is making moves for Milner at an inflated price. Hey presto opportunity arises. How do I get rid of Milner. Offer him a contract but not one that is all that great, so leave Milner and his agent to ponder a while over it. Then come out and use words such as intimated, when in actual FACT Milner has never stated he WANTED to leave. This will explain why Milner is so pissed off that MON has gone public before he's had chance to speak and discuss things as they said they would after the WC. |
jk92293
said:
|
... i dont think i have been left dissapointed at the end of any of the summer transfer windows MON has overseen. i have been left frustrated during it, no doubt, but would many say...leaving the wait we all have to endure...that they were truely disappointed?? i think we will be all happy come Sept 1st with some solid new signings and a new lookl villa. chin up boys...Milner is not the end of the world and MOn will get the best out of a god squad. |
Timmyrara
said:
 |
... In my mind, "intimated" means he wants to talk to all relevant parties before making his decision. What happens when/if Milner speaks to Mancini City and does not like what he hears (ie he will only play one in every three or four games and won't be first choice its just that City need to bolster ther english contingent). Perhaps (and only perhaps) the money will not be enough to tempt him! So he comes crawling back to MON and says he's ready to discuss a new contract. How would everyone on here react to that (highly unlikely) but plausible situation? |
The Burp
said:
 |
...we're essentially stuck with what we've got - which wasn't good enough to finish in the top four last season, The only problem with that Chiefy is that Man City, Liverpool and Spurs could also point to games they should have won and decisions which went against them which just evens it out |
PhilVilla
said:
 |
... Let's just take the money and move on. Look at what Spurs did when they sold Berbatov. They re-invested and are now in the Champs League. Milner is not world Class he is a real grafter end of. So Cya Jimmy I've heard that City have some really nice tracksuits for you to wear when you're sitting on the bench, and they have very thoughtfully put some big pockets in them so you can keep your fat wallet safe. |
Andy
said:
|
... It would have been unlikely Timmy, because City would not have been given permission to speak with Milner, which they would not do (well not publicly anyway). The only way Milner and City can speak to each other is if Aston Villa say he's for sale and they agree a fee with a team. MON has now forced that issue. It is still fact (as MON has confirmed) thay they have not fully discussed the issue of contracts and Milner has not yet told MON if he want to sign a new contract. If I was Milner I'd also want to be considering any contract offered. Both parties knew they were going to discuss it after Milner came back from holiday. As they have not yet, why the hell is MON jumping the gun. Like I said theres some big fat porkies being told to us here. |
jk92293
said:
|
... andy - how about this one? Milner and MOn discussed the issue and Milner said if the right price comes in from City, please accept it, that he sees the man City revolution as too much to turn away. MON would never stand in a players way, but says that it is no question that if they do not agree a fee, then he stays and gives 100% next season. Milner agrees and also not to approach the press given the Barry dibacle and wouldnt approach the press in case Man City dont cough up the cash and he is left in Villa. He is a professional and wouldnt want to alienate himself from the fans or the players. MON comes out and says that he is willing to listen to offers becasue Milner said he would go if Villa allowed it. at which stage do you think Milner owes you an explanation or an indication to what he wants? many were crying that MON didnt come out and as soon as he does, they disect his words like a political analyst would do and make up theorys based on absolutely nothing. uit all seems completely above board, villa have done everything they can to keep it low key, but with the media pressure and media hungry Man City all over Milner, he had to come out and say it in the most nonchalant way possible...which he did. i dont know what the fuss is. Villa will come out of this smelling like roses, as will Milner...and City will look like chumps over paying for a relatively good player who is completely replaceable. why are people using this as a reason to have a go at MON???? |
Timmyrara
said:
|
... Andy - Milner may not have done but I'll put a serious wedge on the fact that his agent has! |
Lloyd_AVFC
said:
 |
... I would let Milner go for 20m. He had an ok season, but we did well because of Dunne, Collins, Big Brad, Young and Gabby, not just James Milner. It is annoying that every summer some club comes in for "our best player" but every season we cope. Someone else will come and fill his boots. We didnt see the best of Downing last season, and with a full preseason behind our already tight squad we will be fine. We could get 2 midfielders and a striker for the money from James, so if MON doesnt, I will drive him up to Eastlands myself with a bow on. UTV |
jk92293
said:
|
...... well if its the same church Ireland and WItzel go to, i certainly hope so!! |
Andy
said:
|
... I think your wedge is safe in that one Timmy I am sure his agent has spoke with both Villa and City and that's what Milner would have to decide upon. It could have been Milner thought he ain't gonna get every game at City and he could be replaced in a couple of years time at City by even bigger signings. So he may have come back to MON and said I've decided I want to stay and I'd like this much MON or whatever, but the fact remains that acoording to MON that conversation has not been allowed to take place. If you were Milner, who had a contract with Aston Villa and you had been offered some other contract, you would want to consider it and make arangements to discuss it at a later stage. You would be seriously pissed off if your manager then jumped the gun and did not allow you to discuss that contract offer further. Like I said, according to MON, that is exactly what has happed. WHY HAS THAT HAPPENED...? |
Christian1983
said:
|
... I think between them, Chiefy and Andy have summed it all up really. It smacks of talks between MON and Milner, where Milner has 'intimated' he'd like to go/refused to sign a new deal, thus, indicating he wants out. I guess the 'agreement' was that this revelation would stay under the radar whilst we searched for players and Man City put their package together. A day or two ago City say 'we can wait' and that leaves a pot-less MON with very little option but to announce the outcome of talks with Milner and essentially force the deal through. He simply can't stay now, he's called the boss a liar. On one hand this is MON forcing him out and forcing the deal through, on the other, this outcome is exactly what Milner wanted when he 'intimated' back in May- he's just angry the truth is out. My BIG, BIG, BIG worry is that City have us well an truly by the balls now. They know Milner CANNOT stay at Villa, they can hold us to ransom. They CAN wait, we CAN'T. If they pull the plug- we're screwed. We'll have a player who doesn't want to be here with a grievance with our boss, and a boss who's been called a liar and is RENOWNED for his grudges. Oh, and zero funds |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Lets just put the whole Milner drama to bed, he is going I dont care why, I dont care how all I care about is we get the funds for him and we start drafting in some players. Milner for what ever reason you are going good luck I question your reasons and your motives but good luck none the less, mark my words there will be tears and they wont be ours |
Christian1983
said:
|
...In my mind, "intimated" means he wants to talk to all relevant parties before making his decision. Interesting scenario Timmyrara. Agreed, it's highly unlikely becasue I'm sure Mancini will paint a very pretty picture and trebling+ wages always helps get over those niggling doubts! But if this DID happen, it makes it very awkward at Villa... |
Shemmanz
said:
 |
... So who would be the perfect replacement ? Ive got some idea's Stephen Ireland my favourite one to replace Scott Parker we cant afford said sullivan Aiden Mcgeady he is a winger we dont need a winger we need a midfielder So which one i would go for if i was Martin O'neill Stephen Ireland without a doubt |
Christian1983
said:
|
... From the Express- it is likely to be a frosty reunion with sources close to Milner also rejecting suggestions that any new contract was offered Is this not disimilar to the Barry saga? Didn't he claim that no new contract offers and talks had taken place also? Confused. What do the powers at Villa get up to all day? Do they pretend to offer contracts and incentives to players etc, or do they ACTUALLY do it, and the players then deny it??! Bizarre. |
Lew Chatterleys lover
said:
 |
... Putting the Milner business to one side for the moment, the most worrying thing for me is HESKEY IS STILL A VILLA PLAYER ! |
Andy
said:
|
... It's all well and good saying we just want it sorting and Milner gone and move on, however MON is lying his ass off over this. Just seen him on TV. When discussing certain points he looks away from the person talking to him and also avoids eye contact when speaking about certain points. MON never says Milner 'WANTS' to leave. MON states he's not spoke with Milner about the contract since before the WC. Milners friend (aparantly another footballer) says Milner has never said he wants to leave, but the opposite. He can't understand why he's being forced out. With the fact that MON is not using factual accounts and is obviously being evasive in what he's saying and his none verbal communication and Milner is stating that he's not asked to leave, with the evidence to date I believe Milner. If it turns out that this is the case I want MON gone. I have always said I'd be happy to sell Milner for the money to rebuild, but MON will have stabbed all those that have a view to keep Milner and our best players in the back. MON is the judas in all this if Milner is right. |
Chiefy
said:
|
...HESKEY IS STILL A VILLA PLAYER Go on Lionel son Sessesong offered to everton for 8million  |
Chiefy
said:
|
...So who would be the perfect replacement ? The answer lies in the Belgium league, Witsel is the replacement ! As good as Ireland but with fight in him, not some chav who ruins beautiful cars ! Witsel is the man we need |
noelo
said:
 |
... Villa said they would talk contract post World Cup. Milner told Villa he wanted to leave before WC No point talking |
jk92293
said:
|
...not some chav who ruins beautiful cars ....just some guy who ruins players careers |
Aggie1874Villans
said:
 |
... Milner is a good player but we wont miss him, we should go to 4-3-3 like all the top teams and we did it when MoN first came and it worked! Would I take a massive pay rise for the same job? YES! But im not on that sort of money so it dosnt compare! Players come and go but us fans are born Villa and die Villa so f**k off Milner you greedy, ugly, spotty c**t and go f**k Barrys fat beachball ass! |
Chiefy
said:
|
...Villa's 1982 European Cup-winning legend Withe believes Milner has been tempted by City's cash. A proper Legend !!!! |
DAJ
said:
|
...Confused. What do the powers at Villa get up to all day? Do they pretend to offer contracts and incentives to players etc, or do they ACTUALLY do it, and the players then deny it??! Bizarre. They also pretend to have 5 year plans and ambitions of Champions league football. Theres a lot of things that dont add up at the moment, and i think we are all being taken as fools. It escapes me how Ellis would be drawn and quartered for this, yet the current head honcho is teflon |
rocky5
said:
|
...If it turns out that this is the case I want MON gone. I have always said I'd be happy to sell Milner for the money to rebuild, but MON will have stabbed all those that have a view to keep Milner and our best players in the back. MON is the judas in all this if Milner is right.agree with you there andy |
Simeon
said:
|
... Rortyboy You've just listed the players (Gabby excepted, who was not an O'Neill signing, and who was playing before O'Neill arrived) we could make a profit on; Ashley Young and Milner. There aren't any others. Delph might rise in value in the future. It's certainly to be hoped for, as it would mean he has made a full recovery from a serious injury. But otherwise, every other player O'Neill has signed has, at best, held their value. I've never said that every single one of our manager's signings was poor. Neither have I said that signing a player with no resale value is always a bad thing. For example, I saw the logic in signing Friedel, a decent keeper with plenty of experience who didn't cost the earth. I'm quite happy to give credit where it's due, and I have given our manager credit, even if I've also expressed the opinion that, on balance, he's done a bad job. And that he's done more harm than good to the club's balance sheet with his transfer dealings is, as far as I can see, backed up by the evidence. I haven't stated as fact what I believe Lerner's intentions are. Rather, I have looked at the facts as they stand (the money that has been invested thus far; that there is no new money to invest at this stage) and tried to make sense of them. I am, broadly speaking, pro-Lerner. I think he's done some good work around the edges of the club which suggests that he has a feel for the place. More importantly, he has backed our manager in a big way in the transfer market for four years. That he is unable to do so now is not something I blame him for. He is a rich man, but he is no Mansour or Abramovich. I would invite you to engage with my analysis, or at least specific points of it, and if you disagree, for example, that the reason why we're not spending now is because we spent earlier, then say so. One indisputable fact (which I quoted in a post yesterday), is that we have a sell to buy policy. Our manager himself said so, and what General Krulak has since said hasn't contradicted that. We're not Portsmouth. We don't have to sell just to stay alive. But if the manager wants to shake things up, he needs to sell some of his current playing staff in order to fund new signings. Given the investment that has been made in the past four years, this is eminently reasonable. So, please do comment on specific points I make, rather than attribute opinions to me that I simply don't hold. I think we'll have a far more productive correspondence as a result. |
Villa_Chris
said:
|
... Anyone know whether the friendly tomoz will be streaming anywhere? Villastreams? Ta |
KrisAVFC
said:
 |
...HESKEY IS STILL A VILLA PLAYER Yeh seriously MON why is he still here!!!! i wouldnt mind even if we paid somebody to take him |
Simeon
said:
|
... On this whole Milner-O'Neill conspiracy thing, didn't O'Neill say that Milner said that he wouldn't be signing a new contract, and that this puts a different slant on things? I've not seen anything about Milner saying that he's never expressed a desire to leave - although I assume the posters who are reporting this aren't just making thing up! But despite our manager's obfuscation, I would be amazed if the truth of the situation is that Milner was perfectly happy to stay at Villa - or at least he was until our manager supposedly shafted him. I don't have a problem with Milner leaving. I understand perfectly why he'd want to leave and improve his lot, and he'd go with my blessing. And should he leave, the club should be grateful to him (and, yes, also to our manager) for making a massive profit for the club in just two years. But at this point, my feeling would be that, if Milner's camp is going to war with our manager, then my sympathies are with O'Neill, at least on this point. Then again, until one is aware of the whole truth of the situation (or at least a far biggerp proportion of the truth), it is impossible to make a definitive judgement either way. |
.vogra
said:
|
... At this present time if i met Milner now he'd be on the receiving end of a Jake "The Snake" Roberts DDT.. |
woody
said:
 |
... well listening to all your views there is problem with aston villa and that is even finishing 6th and challenging for 4th its not enough to attract top players and without top players you dont win anything. they want big money and in this day and age thats what its all about THE WONGA!! look at manu chelsea pool arsenal spurs citeh all big spenders with big wages but all apart from the last in the last few years have won something WINNERS so we either pay silly money and pay silly wages or we just carry on doing about the same every year and be a good safe business. and in business you need to take risks its that simple. CASH WINS. |
Simeon
said:
|
... Villa-Chris Interesting link. It was good to hear a footballer speaking with not inconsiderable intelligence and wisdom, and even better considering he came up through the Villa ranks. As for us signing him, at least he wouldn't cost anything, and in that respect I'd prefer him to Robbie Keane for example! It's a shame Darius Vassell hasn't had a better career. He had talent, but he never seemed to have the belief, character or determination to get the best out of himself. |
Simeon
said:
|
... woody You might not be able to win anything without top players, but you can get close - and closer than we've managed in the last four years. Just look at the World Cup just past. Having a competitive team doesn't necessarily require having the best players. Germany are the most eye-catching example of this. Not one of their players would get into the Spanish team (unless Lahm was willing to play on his 'wrong' side), and only three or four of them would get into the Spanish squad. Yet because they were well organised they were able to compete (up to a point) with the Spaniards. I'd agree that our current manager would need top players to fashion a successful team, but there are plenty of other managers who are able to build teams that are greater than the sum of their parts. |
villarobin
said:
|
... I just can't believe there's not more talk in the press about Milners incredibly square head . |
Villa_Chris
said:
|
... Simeon Darius does seem a little brighter than your average footballer. I used to read his blog and he's a really nice chap. I hope he finds a decent club, he's had a rotten time over in Turkey. He was indeed a player with huge potential. I loved him at the time. He wasn't very confident and that was a weakness... I remember saying 'good luck for England' when he was signing my programme and he was so embarrassed, he just put his head down and turned away. Anyway, has Milner gone yet? |
Chiefy
said:
|
... Villa Chris -- Sunderland and TOMBOLA makes me realise that things could be a whole lot worse |
Hobbsy
said:
 |
... I went to school with darius and he was a top lad, very quiet, he could be very good at championship level |
woody
said:
|
... Simeon good point i agree germany were a good organised unit with some average players. but we on the other hand are now a team MON said 4 years ago a team for the future but how can we be if we get players that want leave as soon as there recognized as top player and villa are not even nearly winning anything. if we sell the top players we need top players to replace them not kids of the future who get to be a good players and bugger off with £££ again!! |
Simeon
said:
|
... woody I think the problem is that though we have some good players (and lost a few for various reasons in the past couple of years), the team itself isn't good enough. It's my view that our manager isn't able to build a team that is greater than the sum of its parts because that requires a level of tactical sophistication that our manager doesn't have. He can get the best out of an individual player in the sense that he can motivate and encourage that individual to work incredibly hard and therefore achieve a higher level of performance. But I don't think our manager can get these individual players to work effectively together. For example, our defensive record last season was one of the best in the league. But this wasn't down to them being a well-organised, well-drilled unit. Rather it was because these players were willing to put their bodies on the line and defend for their lives. And of course the manager should be praised for instilling this kind of desire into the players. Then, if you look at our attacking play, it is very much about percentages, i.e. get the ball into wide areas and deliver the ball into the box often enough and, sooner or later, you're going to create chances (or at least half-chances) and get some goals. There is a certain amount of thought that goes into this strategy, although the method is essentially very simple. In practice, it means the attacking play has to be high-energy and very physical, or to put it another way, hard work. And I think this sums up the team we have at the moment. They work very, very hard - and possibly harder than anyone else in the league. But they don't work smart. Hard work alone will of course get you a long way. But I think we're seeing that a long way isn't really far enough, and we could get further if we were smarter. |
Matt T
said:
|
... DAJ, Of course we will always have wages to pay out. The problem that we have here is that we have an abundance of players who are not playing (for either playing reasons or personal reasons), but who are picking up wages week in, week out. Both of these issues are directly down to the manager, and not the chairman. We are much better buying a player and paying them money if we know that at some point that player is going to make us a profit. These players increase in value by playing well, and then obviously increase in value. James Milner would be a prime example of this, in direct comparison to someone like Curtis Davies. Milner will have made money for the club, Curtis Davies wouldn't even if we managed to sell him for the original £10m (and there's zero chance of that). People can call this sell to buy - it is simply the process of making money on players. Spurs have done this via selling players like Berbatov to Man United, and Keane to Liverpool (when he went - they then bought him back for less money). Spurs finished fourth - so clearly the mechanics of how this works is not indicative of a club who is small. I would have gladly swapped our position last season for the one that Spurs achieved, so this ideology that we are somehow a smaller club/feeder club if we sell our players for profits is ridiculous. What we need to do is buy young players who are not expensive and sell them when they get better. The only issue here is that I am concerned that the manager doesn't have the scouting/personal knowledge to be able to do this. We should not be against the board for the support they have given us - if anyone is at fault, it's the manager. I say give the manager this season to see what he can do, and in the meantime support the club by sticking behind the boys through thick and thin. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Simeon, Essentially then, from the summary of your last post (plus my own opinion), what you indirectly imply is that O'Neill would actually be a better coach than a manager. What do you think? He can get the most out of a player, but he isn't that great at tactics. |
Matt T
said:
|
... Chiefy, If we sign Cordobo after Man City got told £40m for his services only a few months ago, I will absolutely 100% eat my hat. We haven't got the money, I doubt he would want to play for us, and I can't see him fitting the MON strategy. I would love to be proved wrong, but can't see it happening in a million years. |
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- Collins okay and an Aston Villa player revolt
- Something for the ladies and Gérard Houllier
- Curbs, not catch 22 and time gentlemen please
- Transfer window shut, Lerner has to invest or sell and four months of fun
- Kevin MacDonald: The new Aston Villa manager
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