Written by Damian Monday, 08 February 2010 10:09
The dust has settled, I've had a look at the statistics, we are still seventh and well, what can be said about that match that would surprise. Probably nothing, so I will get the formalities out of the way.
I'm also not going to get in an argument today with anyone on anything Aston Villa as it's clear as day there are two camps developing and while I was in one and then joined the fence, my feet are now dangling in the other and I am getting ready to jump. What I would ask when you think about Aston Villa, is to forget names and people and just look at the performances. It is difficult to remember sometimes it really is all about the football.
But, that is maybe too much for this early on a Monday morning, so we will very much now get on with what it is I am supposed to do.
What the Papers Say
David Lacey, guardian.co.uk
If a place in the top four of the Premier League really is up for grabs then the likely contenders should do something better than hold each other to goalless draws. By the time Tottenham met Aston Villa on Saturday Liverpool had moved up to fourth place and Manchester City had lost, but the teams' only response was to grind out an empty stalemate.
Conrad Leach, The Independent
With this goalless draw, Aston Villa have failed to score in five of their last six Premier League games. Given that coyness in attack, Martin O'Neill's men need to be able to keep goals out if they are to maintain their push for fourth place. At least they showed they are effective in that department.
The Manager
Martin O'Neill, Club site
I think that the players who have come in to the football club just in the last week of the August transfer deadline have transformed us really.
Man of the Match
As things stand Ricardo Dunne is the out and out leader for our player of the season award and he was also voted man of the match for the Spurs game, closely followed by Brad Friedel and James Collins.
The Players and Some Stats
Aston Villa played 4-4-2: Brad Friedel, Carlos Cuellar, James Collins, Ricardo Dunne, Luke Young; Webcam Young, James Milner, Stan Petrov, Stewart Downing (Steve Sidwell, 88); Gabby Agbonlahor, Emile Heskey (JOhn Carew, 22). Substitutes not used: Guzan, Delfouneso, Davies, Delph, Beye.I'm not going to talk about the passing stats, but please do guess below who had the most, instead, I'm going to mention shots. Spurs had 33 in total, including 18 of those that were blocked by defenders diving in. We had eleven shots in the ninety minutes. I only mention the shooting stats because I'm sure you are bored of me referencing passing and that total of 33 is the second highest number in a match this season.
Final Analysis
I really don't know what to say. We are seventh with 41 points. We had 48 after this many games last season, but you can position it that when you total up the points against the same teams we are probably one or two better off. I like doing it that way but it does feel like quite a desperate way to look at.
But, Martin O'Neill is confident and for one camp, that is all that is needed. The other camp, he says looking in from the fence, have heard it all before, watched it all before and while they all want it to happen, can't see it happening and they're not just using the past few seasons, they are using his days at Celtic and Leicester too.
Basically, we are within touching distance of fourth. We have Manchester United on Wednesday and well, a draw would be a good result, but if we win we could be much closer. Gavin and Matthew - you've both had emails now will also be going as a VIP, compliments of Lucozade.
Some will notice that I'm staying neutral today, I don't want any arguments and while you will not necessarily see anything positive, you won't really see anything negative. The truth of the matter is I think we were lucky on Saturday and I don't think anyone can disagree with that.
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CSM
said:
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... Ok 0-0 is a pretty boring scoreline but we have played Arsenal, Fulham and Spurs and have taken 5 points. If we manage a draw against Man Utd that is a really good return. We are 3 points off 4th having played most of the top four twice. Happy days. Who gives a rats arse how well spurs played, we are in a results business and I would much rather we kept clean sheets away from home than lose playing flambouyant football. |
Damian
said:
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... CSM let me put it to you another way; the tables are as they are twoday with three games to go in the season. we have to play liverpool, man city and spurs or wigan, bolton and burnley - who would you rather play? remember - three are fighting for survival, the other three are fighting for something that is in all likelihood, out of their control |
deansaunderspermthatsperm
said:
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... a lot of people are going on about our easy run-in, but i seem to remember a hell of a lot of points dropped against these so called 'lesser teams' |
CSM
said:
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... I would rather play Wigan, Bolton and Burnley everyday of the week. They might be fighting relegation but the reason they are fighting relegation is the fact there players are not as good as teams in the top half of the table. This season Aston Villa have beaten the majority of teams by playing counter attacking football. Teams fighting relegation will be pushing forward every oppourtunity. Look at the game against Newcastle at the end of last season. As soon as you get a goal in front, there heads dropped and we won easily. |
rocky5
said:
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... don`t think its the scorelines that are the problem rather the fact of not been able to score not looking like scoring and getting pummelled by those cockney w*nkers,twice.lol.we`ve not had problems scoring the past couple of seasons just think our manager puts too much emphesis on defending.point at spurs a good point though. |
StickyAV
said:
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... I am firmly sitting on the fence too. Those in one camp are blind enough to believe whatever O'Neil says. Those is the other camp have a long list of evidence as to why MON and the club are failing that dates all the way back to his days at leicester. Yes, really sitting on the fence there Damo.... A draw away against one of the leagues in form teams is obviously the latest evidence of how rubbish we are. We drew at White heart Lane. GREAT result. |
rocky5
said:
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... said the same thing yesterday deansaundersperm.i bet the man city fans reckoned on 3 points against hull. |
Bakewell
said:
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... I'm in the first camp of the two. If we collapse like last season I may hop over the fence next season. I don't think we're going to collapse though - the team looks so much stronger than last year which is why I firmly believe that we'll get more points from the final run in than we did last season and at least finish with a better points total. Whether that equates to a higher league finish is hard to say as it's a lot tighter this season than last. |
Lufbra
said:
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... Horrible to watch but sometimes you've just got to grind it out and not lose. It's the hallmark of a good team. Pretty football comes next and I really hope to see more, both for my money, and for a bit of self respect (I lived in Stoke Newington for 20 years a coupel of miles from the Arse and the Spuds and so I have a lot of mates crowing about how good their teams are to watch) but mostly I hate to lose. But let's be positive - we are very nearly a fine team. And yes, this is under MON despite his weirdness. |
GGGG
said:
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... A clean sheet against Spurs is a good result, as it was against Arsenal. If we can follow it up with a win against Man U things are looking rosy... if we lose and fail to score again, Liverpool will start to pull away from us. At least we've been here before, unlike Man City & Spurs. |
ak_27
said:
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...This season Aston Villa have beaten the majority of teams by playing counter attacking football. Teams fighting relegation will be pushing forward every oppourtunity Not when they come to VP. They will sit back as they know if they come out we will beat them. Thats where the problems will start as MON seems incapable of coming up with different ways of tackling teams. Just look at the West Ham game for the perfect example of this and look at West Hams results since we played them. He need to start using Delph, Delfouneso and Albrighton from here on in. |
deansaunderspermthatsperm
said:
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... all i can think about is that we could (should) have had Spurs front 2 playing for us, and them combined with the defence and maturing midfield we have, we would be talking about grabbing 2nd place or even the league, rather than an increasingly desperate grab for 4th |
qashqai
said:
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... We have great defenders possibly the best in the league. We have creative midfield players in Milner,Downing and Young. Gabby is a good young stiker who should improve. If we had a Lockpicker and a Top striker we would be in the top 4 all season long. Just 2 players away from Champions league football. Just a shame we did not buy them !!!!!!!! |
CSM
said:
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... I don't know why people expect us suddenly to start playing free flowing football like Spurs. If you look at any MON team that he has managed he has always set out his teams in the same style. They play trying to hit the ball into the channels for the wide men to feed off trying to cross to a big guy in the box. This is how he sets his teams up to play. He doesn't use a creative flair midfielder who can beat 3 men and play that killer pass. Damian is right you are either in one camp or the other. You either put up with traditional English style of football which may not be pretty but gets results or you play the arsenal way and keep the ball on the ground trying to outplay the opposition. I honestly get fed up with MON's tactics and lack of subs, but I am much more hopeful going into games now than I have ever been in the last 10 years. It might not be pretty but it works. |
Pancho Villan
said:
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...I don't think we're going to collapse though - the team looks so much stronger than last year which is why I firmly believe that we'll get more points from the final run in than we did last season and at least finish with a better points total. That's just the point. We won't collapse because we aren't taking any risks. The fence is pretty crowded on here because on the one hand: O'Niell & Lerner have really sorted this club out and turned us into a much better team. On the other hand: They don't seem able to seize the moment, take some risks, and go for it. A lot of people would rather finish 7th having given it a real go, than finish 5th and wonder what might have been. Others think that a solid 5th is great, and MON will buy the real star players in the summer. I'm not so sure. |
Greg1981
said:
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...He needs to start using Delph, Delfouneso and Albrighton from here on in. Exactly. And no more Heskey, no more Carew. Let’s play some football in the middle. I’ll be much happier driving home on Wed if we’ve played some football. And maybe get Delph, Petrov and Milner linking. At the moment Wenger has a point. |
GGGG
said:
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...Thats where the problems will start as MON seems incapable of coming up with different ways of tackling teams. Just look at the West Ham game for the perfect example of this and look at West Hams results since we played them. Yeah, the West Ham game was the most disappointing recent one and this sums up why we often slip up against the "lesser" teams when we can beat the better ones. As Zico said last season, we are one-dimensional - teams know what we're going to do. They can't always stop us, but if their defence if disciplined enough, they know they stand a good chance of keeping us at bay. Delph looks like he could give us some options when plan A isn't working, but MON seems reluctant to sacrifice Young or Downing. |
Damian
said:
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... CSM i don think they expect it to just happen. i think maybe that they were hoping for it by now |
ak_27
said:
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... CSM for me it's not really even about the style of football right now it's MON's moves(or lack of them) during the game to actually try and influence the games outcome in our favour. Thats the biggest frustration as it will cost us valuble points in the future if he doesn't start trying to come up with a few different approaches to his tactics and subs. Right now we are easily the most predictable team in the entire league. Everyone can pick our team before kick off and everyone can also predict the 2 subs he will bring on during a game regardless of what is needed on the pitch. |
Chiefy
said:
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... Wemberleeeee Wemberleeeee can i just ask does anyone actually think we are ready for champions league football ??? doesnt it seem ironic that we all are on here banging on about how we play and who does/doesnt score dont you think that even if we do qualify are current crop of players lack the ability to complete in the champions league ?? ok we can invest over the summer but it would need massive investment or we would get shown up in the champions league and we dont want to qualify just to get hammered and thrown out again we want a decent run in it, only my thoughts just wondering what everyone else thinks about our current team and their chance if or when we do get fourth ? |
CSM
said:
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...CSM for me it's not really even about the style of football right now it's MON's moves(or lack of them) during the game to actually try and influence the games outcome in our favour. I agree totally its frustrating but I just don't see MON changing. I would love Delph to start as I think the kid is a class act and would bring an attacking edge to our team. I just know Mon would play Sidwell in front of him. The choice is Sack MON!!! or stick with his frustrating style of play. |
SwissVillan
said:
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... Surely the problem is not drawing away from home against Spuds, if we want to break into the top 4 then we need to be winning against the likes of West Ham, Wigan, Burnley, Wolves and Blackburn home and away. Those are the games that have cost us this season because we haven't be able to open them up and sneak a 1-0. |
ak_27
said:
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...can i just ask does anyone actually think we are ready for champions league football If im honest our style of football is totally wrong for CL football. You would have to hope we would be able to attract far better players and then change to a more European style of possession football for the CL games. You cannot give the ball away so much as we do to top european teams who will not give it back as esily as most do in the PL. |
GGGG
said:
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...just wondering what everyone else thinks about our current team and their chance if or when we do get fourth ? I can't see us nicking 4th this season. We need that goalgetter to push us into the frame, so hopefully the situation will be remedied in the summer. Otherwise, I think 4th spot in England is a good marker for mixing it with anyone at the moment - look at how many CL semi-final places the Premier normally gets. Probably the most competitive league in the world at the moment. Whoever qualifies is probably good enough. |
CSM
said:
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... Is anyone an NFL fan. In the Super Bowl last night the Saints took a risk and played a short on side kick and won posession. This turned the game for them and came from 10 - 0 down to win 31-17. The colts were the favourates as they were strong defensively and uncompromising in attack. This was a true example of the Saints coach taking a risk and turning the game. I know its a completely different sport but the principle is the same. MON would never have taken that risk and subsequently would have lost the game. However if you replayed that game 7 out of 10 games the Colts would have won the game. MON is stubborn and determined so he isn't going to compromise his own beliefs so I am afraid we have to love it or lump it. |
runtingz
said:
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... I think while martin has done a fantastic job rebuilding the villa squad it is clear that the weak link in the current sqaud is the attack so until heskey and carew are of loaded to wigan or somewhere and two other more capable strikers come in i think we will be a bit short for champs lge |
B6_Bob
said:
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... I'm going to guess Spurs had more passes, t-shirt in the post? I'm not bothered if we lose on wednesday, what we really need is to beat the lower teams. We can't continue to be overrun and embarassed by wigan and co. This is where we fall down and possibly where that quality striker would score for fun with the chances we can give him. Fonz please. |
Lufbra
said:
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... Chiefy We tend to play better against better sides - they come at us which suits our style. The evidence is our results against the better teams this year - only Arsenal hammerred us. So I think we would actually be OK if we two or three class players. The defence is plenty good enough. |
Chiefy
said:
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... I think in the Summer we will see The MULE and Carew packed off, as long as we keep our current lot of players together and sign the goal scorer we all crave i reckon next season will be our season. If we are realistic we arent ready for C/L yet we lack in the most important part of the pitch. You can only do so much in so much time and so far MON is not doing a bad job, he has sorted midfield and defence now lets be paitent so who he brings in the summer to sort our goals out. But even so if we finish this season with 2 cups or even 1 cup and europa league will anyone moan really ?? |
Jeddy
said:
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... Damian - Can you release the user-names of the people who won the competition? It's completely on the off chance, but I'm called Matthew and my email hasn't been 100% reliable of late and If I had won the tickets I'd need to make arrangements for Wednesday. Again, I know it's a long shout but if you could let me know that would be great. Cheers |
Bakewell
said:
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... Pancho - I agree that we're not taking the risks we maybe need to to push on quicker. What we are doing is making gradual progress. We're almost through a really tough run of games and the two that stand out against 'lesser' teams are Blackburn and Fulham where goals were scored and definitely against Fulham the passing and football was better. I'm hoping that that is an indication of how the final run in will be now we've played most of the top 6. |
Irish_villain
said:
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... Thats the whole point isnt it? If we get fourth, we'll attract better players?? along with the fact that we could have two trophies by May?? I think the fence will become a three way garden soon there's that many people on it! |
Villa_Chris
said:
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... How are the splinters on your arse cheeks chaps??  Whatever will be, will be. Enjoy our progression and lets see how it pans out. Seriously, some people get worked up way too much. Chill- We have no say after all. |
deansaunderspermthatsperm
said:
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... as someone said, it doesn't really matter if we do finish 4th, mon is incapable of changing his ways and if people think things are going to drastically change they need to think again, Mon and Learner especially have bought a stability and respect to the club that has been missing for years, but we will not change and unless we do have a change of manager and a complete overhaul of footballing philosophy we will always be a top six or seven side but that will be all.... it all depends on what you are happy with, and what you realistically expect |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
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... its gas really, ive seen a lot of spurs this season , i dont think they ever play as wellas when they play us. In fairness i dont think we ever play near our own ability against them. Is it cause they're so good or because we came to defend? THe thing with spurs is they dont always raise their game for the lesser teams, and are not good enough to beat the the top 4 sides (liverpool aside) I was dissappointed in us on saturday, we gave them far too much respect and i think we went for the draw, because of the game in hand. I would love to see a specialest right back at the club, someone superior to young, who can get up and down and use the ball better. Cuellars defensive game is good, but he often returns possesion needlessly with his hit and hope football. We are lacking a clever striker who can poach a goal, make space for a shot or take people on in tight situations. Im a huge fan of gabby, but his game is running, working the channells, holding up the ball, that he never gets too much opportunites to shoot or take people on. we are lacking a creative cutting edge, but we are still in the back with only a 1 win between the teams chasing for 4th, man city have an advantage if they can win their games in hand and we can tie for 4th if we win our game in hand. Its funny because when o neill first came we were scoring for fun, but conceding, now its the opposite. It goes to show that teams need to continually evolve because as other teams become more aware of our young stars they can tactically take them out of the game. Im still positive though, we have a great club, are still in the hunt, also going for the cups, have some good youngsters with huge potenial on the precipe, a class manager and club set up and a bueatifull ground with atmosphere and tradition. Its not an easy league and that why we take so much joy out of winning any match because that in itself is an achievment, be glad we are not wolves, wigan, hull, or pompey fans. Although we are a little short we are only 2 or 3 quality players away from being a real force and i for one believe martin o neill and his backround staff know this and our future is safe while in their hands. Up the villa |
deansaunderspermthatsperm
said:
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... for me, i'm fairly realistic with my expectations, and i'm happy enough with where we are, the only thing i miss (and i know it has been much maligned, although only because we got knocked out early) would have been a good run in europe, doesn't really matter to me that it was a second tier european cup, it was still europe |
keefvilla
said:
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... Chelsea 2 Arsenal 0 Who had more possession? Who made more passes? Who had territorial advantage? Who won the match? Lies, damned lies, and statistics. |
vijay
said:
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... I dont know about you guys but im looking forward to the Crystal Palace game more than Man U! |
Pancho Villan
said:
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...keefvilla said: Well let's buy Drogba then and perhaps we would win the match |
cockneyvillan
said:
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... I think a big reason why we were under the cosh in the second half against spurs was john carew. Every time the ball got up to him he couldn't hold it up or control it, he had a couple of easy lay offs to ash young which he gave straight back to spurs and i thought he looked lazy aswell. I know hesky gets alot of stick, but his effort , hold up play and even as a footballer he,s alot better than carew, and for me we would have fared alot better if hesky had stayed on the pitch for the 90mins. It is so important to take a bit of pressure off when your under pressure, and then rest of the team can then push up and start to play again, and although i give a lot of credit to spurs(i think ther playing the best football in the prem right now) for me carew was very poor and did nothing for the team, and im not sure he deserves the hero status he seems to get either. |
Cookiemonsters
said:
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... These are good days to be a Villa Fan In a cup final, very winnable FA Cup 5th round tie, battling for 4th....................best all round season since 1996. UTV |
Lufbra
said:
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... i have to agree with Cockneyvillain. JC looks more like a second row forward than a second striker at the moment. John Carew, Carew He's slower than me, or you You never know what he'll do John Carew, Carew... Sad, but unfortunately true. He's had his day. Much as I loved him. |
Chiefy
said:
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... I do hate to admit it but THE MULE has far more going for him at the minute than BIG JOHN, I think he knows the end is near and he is running down his contract it ends summer doesnt it ??? then he will be off for a final pay packet it turkey me thinks |
Villa_Chris
said:
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... The best defender in the league! Lol |
Villa_Chris
said:
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... |
villarobin
said:
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... Again , all i can see is positives. The Defence desperately needed sorting and it has been The Midfield also well on the way to being very very good. Attack - Is in progress , may be Oneil hasnt been able to get who he wants yet, and is waiting for better players to become available. Carew was a gamble , and it worked for a while. Hesky does a job in certain situations. He needs 1 or 2 good goal scorers and im sure plans are afoot to get them. As for "We are not ready for champions league" GARBAGE !! We have beaten Chelsea , Man U + Liverpool how can we not be ready for Champs league ? We are a damn site better than alot of the dross that get in there from some of the Euro leagues. We will also attract better players if we get in there. Again you can either dwell on the negatives or look at the positives. |
runtingz
said:
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... deansaunderspermthatsperm with all due repect i think getting rid of martin as pure madness .pretty football does not make a great manager but like man u chelsea liverool we have a manager who know the 1st thing when building a sauad is to be solid and as the team progresses and players are added the football will get better but for all the teams i meantioned they can win ugly when flair players are not on form and thats what it takes to be consistant winners martin is easily one of the best managers in the lge and i doult we could do better than him |
villarobin
said:
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... runtingz - here here mate ! and if Oneil can hold on to all our gems and have another window or 2 with some funds we will have a solid , VERY solid top 4 squad. |
Keithc
said:
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... OK, fine. So Spurs had 33 shots to our 11; but how many of their 33 were from ill-advised angles, with defenders closing space, when another pass might have freed up an actual chance? And how many of Villa's shots were in space? I'd argue that in that match, Spurs had more shots, but we were level on out and out scoring chances. |
runtingz
said:
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... villarobin totally agree i think once he sorts out the last part of the team being our strikeforce we will be a very dangerous and consistant team |
rockyvilla
said:
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... I think a point away at spurs is a good result considering how freely Defoe has been scoring. Was dissapointed we didnt bring Fonz on instead of Carew, would have given us more pace and threat up front. Think we can attract a top forward only if we get champs league, trouble is the current team have got to over achieve to get it. The first thing top european players look at is if the team is in champs league if not , they go to one of the top four. This is why MON went all out for it and sacrificed Europa league. If we had qualified, names like Huntelaar, Van Der Vart and Defour could have been attracted. Only other way is to offer silly money like Man City. |
Lufbra
said:
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... I think so too. They'll be like Benitez's Valencia side which was very solid in defence but razor sharp in attack. I like that.  |
andy5759
said:
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... Where are you? Those who view the fence from the positive side are generally easier to please and probably more contented people. Those on the other side are more miserable, pessimistic and quite probably borederline depressives. Those on the fence are conspiracy theorists, ever seeking meaning to events, attempting to create order from chaos. I know where I am. |
seano_star
said:
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... There's been some good comments on here about whether or not we would be ready for cl football even IF we did get it. I point to Everton as an example of what could happen; they didn't even qualify for it after all that season's work. I don't think we have the squad to compete in the tournament and not just that, i mean how would you still compete on a domestic front and try to qualify for the follwing season's? Major investment would be needed in the summer if we did somehow manage to get 4th but can you see that happening really either? |
villarobin
said:
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... Seano - so what if Everton went out, who cares. We might not. Lets follow your argument to its logical conclusion shall we and just not bother. COME ON CLOSE VILLA PARK NOW PLEASE, PLAYERS AND STAFF GO HOME NOW PLEASE, WE SHANT BE BOTHERING WITH ANYTHING ANYMORE, COME ON OFF YOU GO. We are better than 50% of the teams in the champions league , and champions league would mean more investment. On our day we can beat Man U and Liverpool who have only recently won the bloody CL !! |
villarobin
said:
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... And before anyone says it I am not a blind pessimist , following every word Oneil says and loving everything. I was very scathing of Oneil last season at times. I just genuinely feel that this season has been good, and we have the best team now that we have had for a long long time which will only get better. |
phil h
said:
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... chiefy - big john has 18 months left but his agent has already said the club will either offer him a deal or sell him in summer as they want a fee if he goes. I like him but it may be time for fresh blood up front. |
andy5759
said:
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... It would seem that Chris and I have much in common, although I only think about women's bottoms, and tops too come to think of it! I we made 4th this season we would probably de quite well in the CL, even with the team we have now. Our defence and style of play would be very difficult for some of the other qualifiers to cope with. Bear in mind that we will probably add some quality to the squad in the summer that will make it quite probable that we'd make the group stages. However, I don't think we will make 4th, a few weeks ago I was confident we would, recent results have changed my mind. Although we will struggle I still see us getting 5th and pushing whoever gets 4th all the way. When looking at strikers all round the world it is difficult to see who MoN might have his eyes on. Who is out there? I can't see many who would be available in the Prem who could alter our side that much. |
mikey18
said:
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... Are we ready for the champions league? well the Europa League is the warm up and we haven't exactly excelled in that. Liverpool and barca are teams which have won the Europa League, Roma, Juventus, Liverpool Villareal these are teams which are in the europa league but are usually seen as champions league teams. We are very far away from where we need to be! |
kohoutek
said:
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... I said it on the previous thread, and I'll say it again here. Villa are very much in the mold of Chelsea. Not the same quality personnel all round, but the same style. Which means that while I'm not a blind optimist, I do think we're a couple players away from being a very tough team. I wish I knew what was in MON's head, but I'm thinking that really, he's not terribly fussed about 5-8th placing. It wouldn't surprise me if he sees this season as one of consolidating the team and perhaps bringing Fonz and Delph more to the fore next year, depending on what's happening in the transfer market over the summer. If he doesn't believe we have the depth for CL and the league yet, he wouldn't necessarily be focused on maximum points each game, but on having his core players get as much playing time as possible. We've seen that he's very patient/stubborn. I would only really judge whether he should stay or go after next season. If we don't change/progress markedly, then he probably has taken us as far as he can. But I think the stability has been good, the core is good, and if he isn't the man, he'd still be leaving a very solid foundation behind. |
rockyvilla
said:
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... andy could only see Bent or Carlton Cole would improve us out of prem. From europe think there must be a fair few but if they are big names they will want to play on the big stage i.e. champs league This is our next step but think it a big one , too big for this year but would settle for 2 cups and 5th! utv |
kohoutek
said:
|
... It occurs to me also that while everyone may know how we're going to play, it's not exactly a mystery how Chelsea, Utd., Arsenal and Liverpool are going to play, either. The difference is that each of those clubs have a true difference maker or two, one or two players that are just unplayable on their day. Defensively, they're not much better, if any better, than we are. There's obviously a gap in midfield and attack, in terms of quality, but that could easily be where MON sees Delph fitting in. As to where you find a Rooney, Drogba, etc., well, there just aren't that many players like that, year in year out. But in terms of how close we are to the next level, I think we're pretty close. Whether MON will get us there, I don't honestly know. But the results against the big teams (we have a better points haul against the top 7 than Spurs, for example) suggest the side are getting the confidence and toughness necessary to compete. Will MON find the final puzzle pieces? That will be the test, obviously. |
Greg1981
said:
|
... I don’t follow this positive/negative and a fence with two sides analogies at all! I’m pretty positive. It’s just that I went on Saturday and we were crap! It’s not a ‘side of a fence’ it’s a Rafa fact! And I’m ok with MON for the time being but he won’t get a goal scorer; won’t get to grips with strengthening our central midfield; he won’t see the deficiencies with Carew and Heskey; won’t put Delph on save for the dire context of the first game against Wigan where we had two central midfielders to their 5. So not depressed. Just observing facts. I will be looking for a win on Wednesday but will probably be shaking my head in the knowledge that we will have 2 in the centre of midfield and will hardly be able to look as Manu dominate us there. But I’ll be down the Villa and smiling. |
Gwatkins
said:
 |
... Our squad isnt ready or the CL yet but surely thats not the point. Its about being in the tournament which will help to attract better players and hopefully a bit more revenue. This year we might not get that far but hopefully we can bring in a few better players, more money again etc until within a few years we can complete. UTD, Arsenal and Chelsea all struggled when they first started qualifying. |
andy5759
said:
|
... I thought Bent would have been better for us if we'd got him instead of Sunderland. He may cost more now. Cole would also be quite expensive for what he would bring to the side. I rather hope that MoN sees the Fonz as our new striker and Delph in the central holding role. Who knows? We do have some good prospects which only insiders really know all about. It's only early february and we're already trying to second guess MoN. |
SidCowanslovechild
said:
 |
... I don't think there are camps - more of a spectrum with only a few die hards in either full on optimist or full on pessimist camp. There's more than one dimension to this though - results, style of play, ethos, development, environment, finance - anyone who over simplifies is either a genius for cutting through the crap or an idiot for missing most of the elements I think we are moving forward, I don't think MON is perfect, he has many fine qualities but can also be frustrating. I don't know who we would get at moment who I would be confident would do a better job. While we have some technical shortcomings in terms of our play we are (I believe) a couple of special players short of being a real top team. Maybe you could say that about a few teams but not so much us 4 years ago and maybe we have those special players coming through (Fonzi, Delph, Marcy Marc, Clarke)? We need a bit of luck but may just get it and become a very good tough team (more a Chelsea than an Arsenal) I respect positive and negative posts when either based on reasoned and thoughtful argument or done with style - and once in a blue moon both What pisses me off is moaning for the sake of it, predictable, unreasonable, weak crap, poorly written where you can just hear the moany brummy accent for which we are so infamous. At least misguided positive posters are less grating and demonstrate love for the club Being negative all the time does not make you more intelligent than others or less accepting of mediocrity as some make out. It is possible to be positive, understand that this type of transition takes time, skill and luck and always comes with set backs and keep balance even when you are mega pissed off because of a loss. I wish I could be more like this because I feel like my world is ended when we lose to Wigan or someone but at least I'm happy when we beat Chelsea!!!! |
Avillian136
said:
 |
... every1 stop being os negative wait till the end of the season to criticise i mean its not like we have an effect on what o'neill does anyway well maybe if we created a song to tell him this or if any of u have connections but otherwise we don't effect his decisions |
andy5759
said:
|
... Avillian136, I think we have the opposite effect on MoN. Since Damian and others on here have banged on about 4-5-1 MoN has stuck to 4-4-2. Perhaps if we asked for new centre halves and not a striker we may get what we want - a new striker. SidCowans etcetera. I know what you mean about the accent! |
Greg1981
said:
|
... Sid Those points are fine but for years we’ve been crying out for a ‘Sid’ in midfield and an Andy Gray up front. Passion and great skill. Why is this too much to ask? The issue is we could lose people soon. We lost Laursen (one of the best players to pull on the claret and blue) and Barry (great footballer and sad loss – we would be even better with him now). So if we don’t get things moving things will change and this moment will be lost. At the moment I think Barry called it. Perhaps it’s a bridge too far for Mon. We have had many grey purchases and I fear more. This linked with not always playing our best formation for the players we have. 5 in the middle with Delph is a must. |
Headologist
said:
 |
... Agree about the 'Sid' and Andy Gray comment. Tony Hateley feeding on the Webcam and DJ crosses, Oh yes. Good enough for CL? Our results against the top 7 Won 3, Drawn 4 Lost 2 Arsenals Won 3 Drawn One, Lost 5 Could MON be getting it right? Looked up the passing stats on the Guardian chalkboard. Seasons average of successful passes - 76% - exceeded in six of the last seven EPL matches. Only Arsenal AT HOME lower. Clear upward trend on the graph - when did DJ start? Lowest, Wigan and CHELSEA Make of that what you will. |
Damian
said:
|
... SidCowanslovechild you are going to call me a genius then because i will over simplify it and say it is just about the football. we have a squad of players that are very fine. we have 6 players that would walk into most teams outside of the traditional top four but our football is very traditional o'neill our football needs to focus on possession, creating space and passing rather than whatever it focuses on now Headologist it is easy to have a high percentage of successful passes when you make so few |
FatKevs
said:
 |
... A Funny thing a Spurs fans site questions if they want a team like Villa in the CL As if they have the slightest connection with CL football except for that they have a derby with Arsenal |
johndoyle
said:
 |
... we need to get rid of the dead wood up front and play the fonz delph must play and we need a good coach who will teach our players the simple game of pass move and hold onto the ball not this kick it and rush foot ball we play i feel sorry for stylin as he has to play like a crab week in week out he cannot pass the ball forward as there is never any movement by our front men to make space or run off the ball as i said before is this team worth the 150mill which has been spent on it comperd to chelsea who cost 190 mill i think we look like a pub team the way we hold onto the ball i think we have 6 good players and if they where in the top 4 sides they would look much better besause they would be told how to play the game not kick and rush downing looks lost with our style of play if it was not for dunne the best defender we have had since GOD i hate to think where we would be i think it is just the way they are told to play as for getting astar man it will not happen martin has never brought a star player in the last 10 years he aint gonna start now with the money we have spent we would be where we are now even if dol was still in charge rember he brought freddie and the rock for 5mill the 2 . i cannot see how we will score againt mu with the team he plays and dunne cannot play them on his own but i will be there never the less expeting the best i would just like us to have a go we are a big club our wages bill is 4 times the cost of small heath yet we are only one place above them is this good enough still we will have a day out at wembley |
Stan Balaban
said:
 |
... Has anyone else noticed that the Actim team of the season is comprised of 3 Man U, 3 Chelsea, 3Arsenal and 2 Villa players. Surely something must me right and Gabby is only 1 point behind Rooney and the 4th best player of any position in the league according to their stats. |
steve2000
said:
 |
... damian this is my last post and remember im allowed an opinion. Ive looked at this site religiously for years until recently. Ive had the best two or three years supporting villa but im a realist. Unless we bankrupt the club we will not break the top 4. The only other way is to get lucky like everton did once or get a man city owner. I have to therefore enjoy what we have and its better now than ever in the last 15 years or so. This site will never be stay positive for more than two years of a new regime unless they finish 4th or above and as per my comment above that wont happen. Ill still be the occasional visitor but please for the sake of the people in the other camp spread a little positivity as you will lose even more followers and end up with only the taglors. . . Who seems to have also left! |
SidCowanslovechild
said:
|
... Damo, you're a genius! Andy, not disagreeing, those players are hard to find though. Maybe it is a bidge too far for MON, who knows, it might be bridge too far for anyone unless we get some big money and move to London. Maybe there's a genius manager out there who could do it and who wants to come to Villa - but I don't know who it is. We're doing well - want to do better - don't know how to do it. I'd rather stick with MON and let things develop, maybe I'm wrong. We will see |
andy5759
said:
|
... Fans tend only to see that which they want to see. Stats compilers have to see it all. When Villa draw 0-0 we see Villa failing to score, the facts may tell a bigger story. |
andy5759
said:
|
... Sid, I want to see MoN and Randy continue building Villa for many years to come. I know that money will be made available if MoN asks for it in the summer. Somehow I just can't see anyone who would suit us. We cannot spend £50 - £60 million on a player, they aren't available and wouldn't come anyway. We've got to do this the hard way for the time being. We've got to develop as many players as possible - if only to attract more young prospects in front of the "Big 4", also to get some profit from the academy for purchases. We've got to make do with those players within our compass, prospects, journeymen, older players looking for one last hurrah. Just look over the last few years and you will see a number of top flight players turning down moves to the Prem top 4, we're not as attractive as we'd like to think. |
Damian
said:
|
... you can see the bannan photos here: http://www.bebo.com/c/photos/v...2111792895 steve2000 it isn't just about money, it is about football. yes, it is better now on one side (the club) but on the other (the football) it is much like we have had for a number of years. honestly - if you want positivity though, even when it is false positivity, then i'm sure you know there are plenty of other sites you can go read. its just my opinion, much like we are all allowed one, but the football is distinctly o'neill SidCowanslovechild there is every chance it will develop with o'neill if he has better players. every chance. but if the money isn't going to come - which we sort of have to accept it wont because we seem to have borrowed all we can, then the only other hope is the football develops |
SidCowanslovechild
said:
|
... ANdy, I mean't 5 ft by the way - take your point about standing betwen a Scot and his beer, even a junior one Spot on comments about doing it the hard way - we need hard work and luck (3 or 4 kids becoming real good players and maybe a purchase or 2 exceeding reputation like Arteta at Eveton) We ain't a million miles away though - next step is just very hard with lots of other teams trying to do the same thing |
steve2000
said:
|
... damian i think you went a little far in suggesting that i go read the official site if i want to stay positive. I was just pointing out that by staying so firmly in the negative camp you alienate the positive camp. You run a villa website which no longer caters for anyone who wants to stick behind oneil. Im not saying you shouldnt have an opinion only that you should be a little more balanced with your reporting.. Doc bowles type posts for example which no longer exist |
Damian
said:
|
... steve2000 welcome back and i apologise if you thought i was suggesting only the official site. there are plenty of other sites now where you will not find anything negative and just pure positive spin on all things aston villa as for my position, i am firmly on the fence. maybe a position i should have taken from the beginning and i love the positivity but what i cant stand is positivity based on pr or just hope - and while it isn't the only positivity, it is increasing the welcome back; it was a joke |
Headologist
said:
|
... Damien, is the 'D' of your surname Disingenuous  My points were 1 We are improving, of the last 7 better 'success in passing matches', 4 have been against top 7 sides, and 2 Against the top 7, all CL contenders, we have got better results than Arsenal. If they are good enough, so are we. IMO |
Damian
said:
|
... and we may be getting better and in 3 years we may be challenging for the league ... i not knocking what you are saying, only that i cant see it and that doesn´t mean it isn´t happening |
andy5759
said:
|
... A few years ago I watched a Villa v Spuds game in my local (a Spuds pub). At half time everyone reckoned the game was about the most boring anyone had seen. The second half was worse. Right now watching Villa is so much better. I saw Saturday's game in the same pub, there were NO comments about how bad either team was. Neutrals I speak to are full of admiration for the way MoN and RL have transformed our team, squad and club. I can't see why anyone should be pessimistic about our current position or our prospects. I can understand impatience, that means that people see the progress, love it, but want it to be faster. |
PONGO
said:
 |
... Iam proud they way we play now at last not a soft touch and people are saying how boring we are because thy cant beat us THEY DONT LIKE PLAYING US WHERE A THREAT.I admire our syle of play couple of additions class striker to go to play up with gabby and you watch us go  |
Fenian Villain
said:
 |
... I am most definitely in the optimist camp. Yes I find MON frustrating at times, particularly with the substitutions issue, but I think the pros vastly outweigh the negatives. For one I'm not sure who I'd be happy to replace him who I think could do as good a job, and secondly the subtle insinuation is that he should be sacked because he cant get us top four (yet to be proven obviously) is fairly ludicrous. Damien and other critics, or fence-sitters, might refer to the style of football MON plays, but would you really complain if that style of football were eventually to get us Champions League football League/FA cup glory? He can be frustrating, but I chose to look at it as his patience and use it as evidence of his intelligence that will eventually be a long term benefit to Villa. I mean, there aren't a great number of footballers who were on course to get a law degree can you? You might say in football that its largely irrelevant, but surely it counts for something? |
Fenian Villain
said:
|
... Rocky Villa This is our next step but think it a big one , too big for this year but would settle for 2 cups and 5th! "Settle"??? Surely that would be a great achievement, not just a stay of execution?! |
andy5759
said:
|
... Yeah, intelligence DOES count for something. The ability to THINK, the ability to see the problem and to identify the best solution. You can't do that unless you have the right tools. MoN has ensured that the only right tools he has are in his head, contrary to opinion there are no right tools on the pitch. |
steve2000
said:
|
... I'm not after an 'only positive' website. I was fuming when we were beaten by wigan, when liverpool put one past us in added time, when oneill decided to give up on europe when i shelled out money on top of my season ticket to watch the home game....and i was happy to read bad reports.. but i want to see a positive amongst the negatives and we used to get that here. Not any more, but you are welcome to your opinion. It's your site after all but i thought i would put in a little constructive critism. Again, no offence intended and i got the welcome back joke.. Im that bored tonight im back for a third time... |
Fenian Villain
said:
|
... Another reason I love MON: Last season before our major 'blip' (the second half of the season) I think it was the BBC's Jonathan Pearce who asked MON if he thought villa could win the title. A very MON pause which I thought would lead to a standard MON answer was met by "Have you been drinking?" Its a simple thing to love him for, but I think that sums up his bloody genius! |
andy5759
said:
|
... Fenian, have you heard the "An evening with Martin O'Niell" recorded towards the end of last year at the Bourneville Club? The man is pure class, he had the whole audience in stitches. His delivery was impeccable, his timing was perfect. He could be a top comedian if he wanted. In fact he is a top comedian, a top lawyer, a top manager and a top interviewee. I am one of those on here firmly in the pro-MoN camp. |
Fenian Villain
said:
|
... andy5759, lets elope  I didn't see that, care to link me up so I can see/hear it for myself? |
Damian
said:
|
... steve2000 i am not going to read through all the posts made over the past few weeks but we turn over the frontpage on average, every week on the frontpage now, there are 4 positive posts - it might even be 5 or 6 depending on how you look at it you are right though - we are not getting the happy clappy stuff we were getting 2 seasons ago but that is because 2 seasons ago i still hoped o´neill was going to do something different look - i dont know how old you are but if you are as old as me you will remember watching leicester under o´neill and you would have, again only if you like watching football as much as me, seen his team while he was manager of celtic - if you haven´t you wont understand, but if you have, you will. its funny, but not everyone remembers his days at leicester and not that many saw his celtic |
legsofbremner
said:
 |
... I understand the frustration with the lack of goals... BUT... I am startin' to love the way we defend. The passion and bravery is out of the ordinary. I loved Laureson and was wondering what'd happen without him. SORTED!!! Curtis will come back having fought the best for his place. A lot of people are championing King Cuella and saying he should play in stead of Collins and all that. The King is a liability at right back. I question MON's wisdom there. Twice a game he passes it straight out, or to the bad guys without pressure. Collins is a better fullback for us 'cos he has cultured feet and can pass out of defence and hit people. There were several wonderful Cowansesque, 30 yard landing on a sixpence passes before his injury. Dunn's another super human. A force of nature. Those times when he just breaks out and storms down the middle are just pure football passion moments. Maybe we need a calm genius play maker in the middle...? Possibly a 20/30 goal guy...? Just enjoying the ride at the moment. I refuse to over think it. Villa will always frustrate us, but the ride is the best it's been since the glory days and I feel the pride again. As a none Brummy, but from a family where Villa is passed on to the next generation before the umbilical is cut, I don't reckon there's need for fear, worry or panic. We is the bloody Villa. MON's ride is fun. Stop thinking. Get on board. |
McParland
said:
 |
... Would realy love to get a win against Man U tonight but will readily take a draw and i for one do not think we are champions leauge at present, do not have a sufficient potent attack force to survive in that arena. Prefere to get a cup if possable and finish in front of Small Heath Aliance because they are gradualy creeping up on us. UP THE VILLA. |
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