Written by Damian Monday, 13 April 2009 09:01
Character and determination are good words to use when talking about yesterday. The support was excellent, the fight back was excellent and overall, while Martin O'Neill couldn't be more pleased, they are just words and while they're all nice words to use the fact of the matter is we dropped two points yesterday, although Everton fans will think they dropped two points also.
Yes, it was a great match to watch and when we got to it back to 3-3 I thought we were going to win but it didn't happen and well, we sort of knew we were not going to get three points yesterday and as soon as the team was announced, I even predicted as much, with I must say, a gut wrenching resignation.
I apologise if I am coming across as a bit of a tosser this morning,but it was actually the points we needed and not a spirited display and I would have quite happily accepted a boring 1-0 over that game yesterday because we would have had the points, but it wasn't to be and we have to move on.
What The Papers Say
Peter Lansley, The Times
It has become de rigueur for Villa to concede two goals a game, so they got that part of the equation out of the way in the opening 23 minutes yesterday.
The Sun
Yet a six-goal thriller does not disguise the fact the fifth and sixth-placed teams are only one point better off than before kick-off — and the gap to the Gunners is growing as the games run out.
Ian Herbert, The Independent
Villa's performance was a vibrant one when they recovered from Everton's start – John Carew tormenting Joleon Lescott, and Ashley Young causing Tony Hibbert difficulties. But Villa, for whom Gabriel Agbonlahor will have a hamstring scan today, have still won only five games in the last 16.
Stuart James, guardian.co.uk
It was a compelling encounter and a fitting sequel to the game at Goodison Park in December, when Villa secured a remarkable 3-2 victory after Ashley Young scored deep into stoppage time following another breathless 90 minutes.
The Goals
Fellaini (18) 0-1; Cahill (22) 0-2; Carew (32) 1-2; Pienaar (52) 1-3; Milner 2-3; Barry (66)
Player Ratings
This week the player ratings are from Martin who emailed in. He made it quite simple for me and said, give the defenders all a six, everyone else a seven and James Milner an 8, so that it was I've done and I sort of agree with him.
6Brad Friedel
6Luke Young
6Nick Shorey
6Curtis Davies
6Zat Knight
7Gareth Barry
7Stan Petrov
7Ashley Young
8James Milner
7John Carew
7Gabby Agbonlahor
Aston Villa Man of the Match
Man of the match is James Milner. You all voted for him and I agree but I'm only giving him it for the free kick as it was something special.
Up next: West Ham at Villa Park
I want to inspire something about this match but I don' think it can even be classified as a must win match any more. Sure we have tow in if we want to secure fifth place, but is there any difference between fifth and sixth this season apart from a few quid?
I appreciate that fourth is still possible in so much that Arsenal have to play Liverpool, Manchester United and Chelsea and they have distractions but I'll happily accept now that we won't catch them, Martin O'Neill says they're not going to "down tools and give up the fight" but it's not a fair fight.
Final Analysis
At the end of the day, Everton should be the most disappointed because they as good as gave us the point yesterday and with the lead that they had, they shouldn't have, but we did look okay going forward yesterday, so there is something positive to take from the game.I know I wrote how we needed to play five in midfield and I know some don't agree but had we played with five in the middle yesterday, maybe they wouldn't have scored three but at the same time, maybe we wouldn't have scored three, we'll never know, however I remain convinced and after the match yesterday the Everton fan I watched with even asked why we're not.
Basically, it was a disappointing result. A very good football match and one that will be talked about for a while, but not what we needed and well, it will take something very special for us to finish in the top four now, but it is football and anything is possible.
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Anthony Laud
said:
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... cant agree with the scores for the defenders - they seem to get 6 and 7's every week yet we keep conceding hatfuls! someone has to take the blame. |
Michael
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... dont agree with you about the game being lost as soon as the team was announced, minus martin laursen it was our full strength squad, we had 2 good wing backs, 2 good wingers, 2 good central midfielders (perhaps lacking creativity but one can pass well and the other can tackle and both can hold up the ball) and a fast pacey striker to run off a strong centre forward who always looks like scoring. |
Damian
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... mickey86 that was just my view and it's what i posted yesterday too .. all i'm doing is standing by what i wrote because I am till surprised martin o'neill continues to play 4-4-2 |
andrew
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... We've got defenders playing in there correct positions and we are shipping goals in,im fed up of giving teams a goal or two head start at VP.At times we gave Everton far to much room in midfield and invited them onto us.We need to drop Gabby have Milner and Young support Carew and bring in Reo to sit behind Petrov and Barry to offer a bit more support just infront of defence.On a positve note i thought Delfoneso played well when he came on. |
dean crossman
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... i was there yesterday and the first 30 mins it was like watching a completely different team to the one flying high in the league not so many moons ago. However after there 2 goals we did start to show just how capable we are. Its just so frustrating that time and time again we need the opposition to go in front before we realise we're actually in a game!!!!! This game was really our last hope realisticly of reaching the chumps league and the boys just didnt seem up to it from the off which was hard to take in? I think now the old villa will return to villa park, without the pressure of chumps league i think we'll start enjoying playing again. However if we want to progress we must invest in old heads as well as talented youth who can cope with such pressures because the current crop have really struggled once the pressure was on them. So all i ask for now is a strong end to the season and for the players to go out on a high, to be playing with smiles on there faces again and for villa park to be rocking again which it was yesterday for best parts. UTV |
Nick
said:
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... When you leak goals the way we do, you will not win. And I think the blame starts at the back with the center backs. They were atrocious again, and plus Luke Young wasnt great either. With every single Everton attack you could see a goal or chance being created, we were just so weak at the back. I am for the 4-5-1, we are better with it and the numbers prove that. But I am just wondering how much good would it do with our back 4 being so bad? Can another midfielder really shore up the massive problems we are having with the back 4? Im not too sure right now. There were plenty of positives, but frankly we already know and have seen these positives time and time again. We know our team is full of heart, we never give up, and we are a very good attacking team. The problems are at the back, and have been for some time now. So would someone please donate their knees to Martin Laursen. I would do it but I am only 6 feet and I fear I would not be a match. |
peter haworth
said:
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... I thought the team showed character and BALLS for the way they came back twice against an inform Everton team that had only lost twice in the last 20 games!I wish we had played 5 in midfield against Everton with Carew on his own upfront with NRC in front of our back 4,but not for the remaining games.I believe we can still grab 4th,Arsenal now have Djourou and Gallas their 2 centre backs out for the rest of the season.Also,they have midweek CL games,semi final against Chelsea which means a congestion of games plus big hole in centre of defence and still have to play the top 3 and could lose those 3 games.The Villa fans were the 12th man yesterday so i am very optimistic for our remaining games.Also Everton have to play Man U and Chelsea. I really fancy our chances in the run in so a dramatic end to the season. |
Woodinho
said:
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... Decent game to watch, defenders need shooting! Davies looked like he still hadn't got over last week! Is it me or is he really not looking like a £10m defender?!?!? |
timbo
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... come off it, that was about as much heart as I've ever seen from a villa team, everton are no mugs and in the form of their lives, it was extraordinary to come back twice from two goals down, milner and barry were immense, who cares about one nils and points in the bag when they provide excitement like that? we seem to assume that everyone is just going to roll over and let us play... yes we could have bought a few in january, but these players give absolutely everything even when things are against them, isn't that what we want? |
Keith
said:
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... I thought the performance was good except for the centre of defence and goalkeeper. When is Friedel going to save something that isn't straight at him? Laursen playing in that team instead of Knight and we would have won. Fellaini should have been sent off too, twice he elbowed players in the face!! |
Spencer
said:
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... Two main attributes missing from our defence that Martin Lausen brings is leadership and composure. Davis and Knight look decent enough with ML playing next to them but pretty lost without him. I hope Carlos can get fit again and help supply some of that leadership and composure for the time being and then a serious look at things in the summer based on how ML's knee will cope next season. |
Lee Jelley
said:
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... I think the Knight/Davis partnership doesn't work both player are a be naive at time and need an old head next to them, until Laursen comes back or we buy another CB next season we will continue to leak goals. On the plus point Shorey has given the much needed balance to the team and although I'm still eager for Bouma to come back we have looked balanced and with L Young back on his preferred side it has freed Milner and seemed to have a knock on affect with Barry and Petrov being able to attack more. |
Chris Algie
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... It may be blind optimism but I think we'll win our remainding games and Arse will lose against the big three handing us 4th. |
Mike Carter
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... Sounds like O'Neill has finally given up on finishing 4th. At least it takes the pressure of us. It is vital that we win against West Ham though. Playing well in the last two games counts for nothing, if we keep drawing Everton WILL go above us and teams like Tottenham are on a roll now. I just wonder how different things would have been if we hadn't thrown that game against Stoke away. A win there and we would have been 8 points clear of Arsenal, who knows what kind of psychological advantage that would have given us. Ah well. |
r0bb0
said:
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... Damian, you've made some valid justification for 451 and others have made valid points against, but unless there are new points to be made can we move on rather than repeating the mantra. For what it's worth, I would also like to see how we'd perform if we reverted to 451, but it cannot believe it's the answer to life the Universe and everything......nothing in life is that simple. |
Mark
said:
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... Fact: Villa have not lost a game when Petrov, Barry and Sidwell have started together. Goals conceded per game in those matches - less than 1 per game. |
thom
said:
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... Don't agree that Everton gifted us the goals at all. We had two penalty shouts before the pen we got because young was trying his hardest to get hibbert sent off, naturally as he should be in my opinion. Also...no stopping Milners goal, fantastic stuff, he gets my vote for taking them now. Delfouneso was unlucky no to win it for us. Ok our first goal was scrappy but so was their second. I think overall we can't have any complaints. We came back great and we are pretty much the same team as Everton. Just because we are Aston Villa doesn't mean we have some god given right to win each game does it? Nobody was complaining when we went up to goodison and put 3 past them, So they aren't allowed to be given the credit they deserve for doing it to us? It was a fair result for two very similar teams chasing the same prize. Agree the defending was shoddy for us, but so was theirs. Perhaps the defence needed a few games to gel, after all Shorey is pretty much a new addition and Luke Young probably needs a bit of time to re-adjust to being at right back again. Agree perhaps Sidwell should come back in to midfield and with Gab injured possibly carew on his own with Young and Milner flanking. Anyone thought about the possibility of Milner going in the middle?? He has said in the past he feels more comfortable central, maybe put him in their with Barry and Petrov, try young on the right and maybe Delfouneso dropping in from the left? or maybe even giving Albrighton a go?? I know its a wacky suggestion but with Arsenal still to play all of the big four i think we need to start freshening things up a bit and maybe taking a gamble to surprise some teams because i've no doubt that other teams have started to figure us out. Delfouneso looked sharp, think he should get his first start against west ham. If at the end of the day we dont get top four then it wasnt meant to be this year. MON will have seen what its like to compete up their and re-adjust the team to compete better next season, no doubt. He has made mistakes of course, but dont forget he isn't the finished article yet either and this is probably the biggest challenge he has had as a manager. Of course Celtic are a BIG BIG team but pushing the top four in the prem is a harder job than winning the spl with celtic. We have some tough games left to play but all winnable. Arsenal will be looking over their shoulders now that they have defensive issues....anything can happen, enjoy the ride. Unless we finish 7th in which case this whole message has been a waste of time, fuck it all im moving to barcelona |
Paul Gough
said:
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... I think you have it about right Damian. Its now a big ask to get fourth. Arsenal would have to loose to the top 3 and we would have to win all our games. Possible but unlikely unless Arsenal loose their heads. |
Ian Stockton
said:
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... Why is MON at the leicester leeds game?? He should be sorting out our problems at the back not on a jolly to see his old chums. Little things like that piss me right off. |
crazyhobo
said:
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... I just did the predictor on the bbc and have us to miss out on goal difference with us both on 69pts |
Rich Clark
said:
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... OPTIMISM people! arsenal have a couple of injuries at the back, and they have twice the amount of games to play than us in the next couple of weeks, and that will continue if they advance in the champs league and fa cup...and honestly, which would you rather concentrate on? winning the champions league (or at least getting to a final) or achieving 4th place in the prem league? personally id rather have the silverware, so their minds may be elsewhere... and i know it sounds bad, but hopefully theyll get more injuries :-D YES WE CAN! never ever ever give up. Impossible Is NOTHING. |
Anthony Laud
said:
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... Rich Clark - well if they win the champs league it doesnt matter anyway as they take the 4th place regardless. we simply have no chance of finishing 4th we would have to win 6 in a row which please can somoen tell me the last time villa did that in the league - decades ago? and arsenal would have to pick up 8 points out of 18 thats if we won all 6. i dont care who they have to play that isnt going to happen. in fact west ham have more chance of catching us especially with playing us than we have of catching Arsenal! |
Mike Carter
said:
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... I think yesterday was good evidence that 5 in the middle wouldn't really have helped that much. Yes, the first 25 minutes Everton bossed the midfield - but they bossed the whole pitch. Not because they had an extra man in midfield, just simply because the Villa players were rabbits caught in the headlights. After we scored our first we generally took control of the game, and our midfield was able to dicate the pace even though they were supposedly a man down. 4-5-1 is not going to rescue our season, nor do I believe it ever would have. As Villa fans we know exactly what a bad run is - confidence hits rock bottom and we're unable to get the results we need. We see it every season. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact we changed formation, it's just mostly a psychological thing. I will say that MON's blind faith in Heskey has caught us out big time though. It's no coinsidence that once Carew comes back into the team, we look ten times better. Infact, we look as good going forward now than at any point in the season. The defence however is extremely suspect, getting caught out far too many times yesterday. |
Mark
said:
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... I think there are signs of Ashley Young recovering the form he had before he was suspended. Here's a thought, what if we had put a weakened team out in the FA Cup? - Ashley would never have been sent off, we could have kept an unchanged team! |
Damian
said:
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... vivavilla If the result was 0-0, or even maybe 1-1 - I'd agree with you and say I was wrong. But they scored three goals! How can you possibly say that 4-5-1 wouldn't have helped especially when two of the goals were scored from midfield build up play? Like I said yesterday - look at the results when we were playing five in midfield and look at the results when we have been playing four in the middle. All I'm saying is, it can not be discounted without going back to it for ten or so games and then compare the results. I'll also predict this now; if we play 4-4-2 against West Ham next time out, we may very well struggle again to get all three points. AVMark I agree - he looked lively .. maybe a little too late though, maybe. |
Michael
said:
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... if the score was 0-0 or 1-1 why would you agree, yes we conceded 3 goals but we sill scored 3, would we have scored 3 goals if we played 4-5-1? theres no point looking at the negative all the time when the exact opposite is a good thing. |
Martin Clabon
said:
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... Tonebone - that's the spirit! AVMark - is that right? Those games where Sidwell was playing rubbish we won? Sounds right bit bit if a suprise. MON is a bit dogmatic and once a player falls out of favour (Shorey, Reo Coker, Harewood) we tend not to see them for a long time so don't fancy seeing Sidwell much this season, fair or not Stocky - bit daft that, sorry. Players won't be training today so what do you want him to do sweat over a tactics board with a stick trying to work out how to turn Knight in to Vidic? He will be scouting, probably Fabian Delph (not sure of spelling). Even if he is having a jolly so what even he deserves a day off |
Damian
said:
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... mickey86 why would I agree with him? simply to put this to bed but if anything, yesterday just shows why we need it even more ... would we have scored three goals though with five in midfield? yes - we were scoring just as many when we were playing five in midfield so there is nothing to suggest that would have changed as for looking at the negative all the time - we've blown top four because the manager insists on playing a formation that is out of date and doesn't work. i suppose the positive is, he'll not do it next season .. or you'd like to think he won't |
James
said:
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... I'm still not usre about this formation thing. Let's make some assumptions about MON. 1. He knows the players better than anyone on here. 2. He knows more about football tactics than anyone on here. 3. He has more experience and understanding of Premier League football than anyone on here. 4. He is able to draw upon advice from far more experienced people than anyone on here. 5. He wants to success for Aston Villa more than anyone else on here. 6. He talks more about formations than anyone else on here (possibly with the exception of Damian) Now I'm not being sarcastic or arsey here. Like I say I'm not sure myself and if anything I'm leaning towards 4-5-1, BUT why is he doing it? He MUST have reasons and suggest it is just becuase he is old fashioned or pig headed is nonsense. |
FKev
said:
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... Come on Nan State the obvious crap he knows more yes, but by that he must know a lot less than the managers that have beaten us over the last few months with that sort of analogy How can you say he wants success more than most of us on here? I have supported Villa for nearly 50yrs its not just a Job to me. He is far from always being right as you suggest (Yes we Can bollocks) I would go out to win every game not throw it for something we may get into. Deal with a game at a time anything can happened between the next game coming. |
Mike Carter
said:
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... Damian I know they scored three goals, but as I pointed out originally two of those came in the first 25 minutes when we weren't even on the pitch. Everton flew out of the gates and Villa hobbled - they scored twice early on because their movement was far too quick and we couldn't keep up, not because we had four players in midfield. Once we gained control of the game it was a near dominant performance. In the second half we had nearly all the possession, with 4 players in midfield. We looked dangerous and created plenty of opportunities, with 4 players in midfield. Just as we played against United. The fact we conceded 3 goals was nothing to do with the fact they had 5 in midfield, it was down to our piss poor defending. |
Simon
said:
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... r0bb0, i think you have a point, the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. Perhaps if we played that instead of 45 we would be higher up the table. |
James
said:
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... Fkev Whay are you always so cross? Is life not good? Saying he knows less because we lose is obviously nonsense. Put Fergie in charge of my local non-league team and they'd lose to United even if you were manageing United. It matters more to MON because his whole life and reputation hangs in the balance every time a game kicks off. All these managers live and breathe football to the detriment of their family and their health. It matters more to him. I stand by my comment. I want to know what he is thinking. On the face of it he appears to be wrong about formation. In retrospect he appears to have made the wrong decision about Europe. But why? Finally when did I say he was always right? We all get things wrong all the time. I bet even you make the odd mistake occasionally. |
Mark
said:
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... Nan: I think it's fine with hindsight to be critical and point out where mistakes have been perceived to be made. I'm sure MON does exactly the same thing and he like everyone else is not infallible. Football fans are not (all) idiots and whilst we rarely understand the finer points of strategy or the internal dynamics of club personnel, we do have the advantage of perspective. Sometimes you can see the bigger picture when you are not in it. MON has his job on the line. MON has made the signings, given the assurances, the rollockings. He has built the personal relationships with players and staff. It is a big ship that cannot be turned in tight circles whereas we do not have these encumbrances. But that is the fun of it all. Whenever I get close glimpses of the inside (and believe me I do) it's almost always disenchanting. Our job as supporters is to back the club, our delight is to speculate and fantasise. It is the very not knowing that fuels our fervour. Personally? I think MON probably WOULD cut off his nose to spite his face. I love him for it and long may he continue at VP because he will not be replaceable. |
James
said:
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... I agree with all of that AV Mark. I just get bored of the old...'he's crap at this, wrong with this' stuff. I like the discussion to revolve around why or why he doesn't make certain decisions. Debate's been good lately, mind. |
Leroy
said:
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... Id just like to ask people who think MON is not doing the job or should be sacked....WHO THE FUCK WOULD YOU HAVE REPLACE HIM? Im getting sick of the whole thing. He is probably as good as manager as SAF and Wenger the only difference is that they have been at the clubs for years and years and have built a complete team bringing in players that they want. SAF and Wenger dont use any tactics at all as they now have the personnel that can do a job in any formation. What seperates them from MON is their ability to let players go at the right time (Beckham, Henry etc) and spot youngters (Ronaldo, Fabregas etc). Is it totally inconceivable that in 4 years time we will be talking about the day when Barry was let go, in the same way as Beckham and spotting a youngster like Ashley Young the same as Ronaldo? The money is the biggest factor. SAF can spend 14mil on a 17 yo from the unknown parts of eastern Europe.....we spend 40mil on 7 players, they spend it on 2 or 3. Massive difference. The one thing i wish MON did better was scout foreign players and then attempt to sign them. Or atleast loan a couple of experienced players for the run home. There is no reason to have tired and jaded players at this point of the season.... Hopefully he improves things this summer |
Leroy
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... BTW, now that ive read it, saying SAF and Wenger dont use any tactics is probably a bit strong....but i think you get my point im trying to make |
Martin Clabon
said:
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... AVMark, piqued my curiousity with "close glimpses of the inside". Is there anything you can share or would you have to kill everyone on the site? |
Mark
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... Good point Leroy. MON will ditch who he wants to ditch and bring in better players and we will be stronger next season. Lots of people go on about Man C and Tottenham etc. however we have had a season of building on them and in any event the better they are, the more points will get taken off the top four. |
Daniel Wilson
said:
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... Damian, are we getting rid of this retina burning white any time soon or have you decided it's staying  |
James
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... AVMark I would interested to see your point about of us being one step ahead of the other possible Top 4 gatecrashers. I remember some time last year several people claiming that Spuds, Portsmouth, Man City and Everton had moved ahead of us because of their clever dealings in the transfer market. WRONG. No doubt those same people will be claiming that during the Summer window when Spuds sign some huge star and City buy half of Milan that they will then be ahead of us. This year has begun to be seen as a failure as a result of not making Top 4. I'm sure people said that we would finish below Everton, Spuds etc this year. I watched the game with 2 very knowledgeable Evertonians. When I told them I was concerned about the result because of the pressure it could put on MON they were absolutely stunned. They said they thought he was the most secure managerial position in the Prem. They even said they'd swap him for Moyes. |
Martin Clabon
said:
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... I think Moyes is a very good manager although a bit of a dour Scot (as so many good managers are). I do think we don't know when we are well off and I fear losing MON which would lose us our competitive advantage which is helping us overachieve in comparison to our squad in my opionion. No doubt there are other managers who could help us do the same but before we knew it we could have Bobby Gould and be looking nervously at the Championship. We might get lucky and get Martin Johl and play nice football and still be up there challenging the big 4 but I for one do not want to take that chance |
Le Shava
said:
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... "They even said they'd swap him for Moyes" They need their heads checking imo. Moyes has done better than Martin o'Neill with less funds at his disposal. |
Martin Clabon
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... Le Shave, welcome back we have missed you. Not sure I agree with you. Moyes has been at Everton twice as long, is behind us in the league and very nearly taken Everton down twice |
daniel wheeler
said:
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... i think moyes is the better of the two managers but it is close. moyes has cracked the top 4 but he has been at everton longer than mon's been with us. if we stick with mon (and i think lerner will) he will eventually get us in to the top 4. however i don't think it will be next year but the year after for our crack at CL football  |
Le Shava
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... He has given Everton a taste of Champions League football. Something i cant see you lot ever achieving in all honesty. This year was your best chance and you blew it. |
Le Shava
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... SidCowen I am not trying to wind you up. This is just what i truly believe. I look at your squad and i don't really see much potential. Ashley Young is a decent player but has been found out by the better full backs. He hasn't got the type of blistering pace Lennon has, or intense trickery Arshavin has to make him a truly dangerous winger, and the worst thing is, Aside from Carew (who i think is world class), Young is your only stand out player. The rest are a bunch of joey nobodies that wouldn't look out of place at West Ham or Wigan. I really don't understand how you lot can be happy with Martin O'Neills signings. |
Le Shava
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... Just look at it this way, you spent around 20million on the likes of James Milner and Carlos Cueller. These are mediocre players at best. |
Leroy
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... So La Sheva, by you saying Villa are a bunch of joey nobodies perhaps youd like to take back your words about Moyes being a better manager than MON? After all it takes a special type of manager to get a bunch of nobodies into the top 6..... |
Nick
said:
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... Moyes has had how many years at Everton? Albeit he has not had too much money to spend recently. He is a very, very good manager, no doubt. But MON has only had 3 seasons at Villa Park, he has worked wonders in his time here. You cant really compare them yet. And Le Shava, you have no idea what you are talking about. You're just a sad arsenal fan trying to depress everyone else in this universe because the mighty arsenal have gone another year with nothing to show for it. While your rivals leave you in the dust again and you're stuck to celebrate CL qualification something you use to take for granted. You say this year was our best chance, based on what? We are young just like your team. We will improve just like your team and sure we might lose some players, just like your team. So if this really was Aston Villa's best chance for a CL spot it was certainly Arsenal's best chance for a PL title. The stars wont align like that again for another million years. Yea right, idiot. |
peter power
said:
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... martin jol says he would love to manage again in england and why not us,as spurs sacked him for coming 5th twice,he bought them keane and berbatov and mon got us marlon and heskey  |
Le Shava
said:
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... Leroy Look at Everton's team. They have some good players, but no worldclass ones. You have seen the show 'the inbetweeners' haven't you? Well Everton's squad is the footballing equivalent. Everton's squad is filled with better than average players, but below the level required to play for a top European club. I claim Moyes is better than O'neill because he has spent very little, but put together a good side that hvae more than just one style of play. Villa, despite being a good side, have no plan B. |
Le Shava
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... calm down nicky lad. Please don't compare our young squad to yours. James Milner < Samir Nasri...get the picture. |
James
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... Leroy and Nick, that was beautifully done. Bye bye Le Shava; your arguments have been Le Shafted. |
Nick
said:
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... The only midfielder on Arsenal better than Arteta is Fabregas. I mean Wenger didnt try to sign him or nothing in January.  |
Le Shava
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... As for your comment about Arsenal having nothing to show for it. Well that may be because only one cup has been won thus far, moron. |
Nick
said:
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... Yes I wont compare the squads that have battled all season long in the PL for the same position. That would be insane. |
Steve Badger
said:
 |
... LEROY, well said mate, I totally agree. As much as I rate Moyes, MON is easily as good IMO.Why do Man U fans see him as the man to take over from SAF? As for the "not much money to spend" point, whilst I'd concede that's partly true, how much did Fellaini cost in the summer? Length of tenure is definitely a valid point. Unfortunately, I don't see MON staying too long after some of the criticism I've read on this and other forums. I even read a thread on a certain newspaper's forum practically begging for Lerner to sack him and replace him with any from a list of (free agent!!) managers. I really think some people don't realise how good we've got it at the moment. We all want top 4, but it's such a difficult achievement. Christ, I'm even coming round to Taglor's way of thinking about the current top 4 now, especially of that joke 5 mins of ET last week. Yes MON has made mistakes, but so did SAF. It was only the FA cup win that saved his job and of course we all know what followed after that. Those who mention Martin Jol, well yes, I liked him too, but remember it was common knowledge that he totally lost the dressing room, something I could never see happening with O'Neil. He's not liked and highly regarded for nothing. Just give the bloke a decent chance, then slate him when he's actually messed up big time, imo. |
r0bb0
said:
|
... Nan, Le Shava has made a few honest and sensible comments, but too many of them are one eyed and lacking in any sort of logical thought. Recently in particular the debate on here has often been original, interesting and sometimes illuminating. Le Shava has been generally lowering the standard of debate and taking it back to the yah boo sucks level. I'd suggest that we ignore him and he'll go away. |
Le Shava
said:
|
... Arteta better than all midfielders aside from Cesc...hmmm, Andrei Arshavin spring to mind? He plays on our left. Lets get one thing straight, Arteta is a good player, but he is to Everton what Bent was to Charlton. As soon as he leaves for a better club he will be shown up. Also, your comment about fighting for the same position. Listen carefully, we have grossly underperformed, whilst you have clearly overperformed. This is why you are under the false impression that your little club can now tackle the big boys. Or should i say, "why you WERE under the impression". No doubt the Liverpool drubbing would have brought you back to your senses. |
Nick
said:
|
... You are right Badger, everyone who thinks MON needs to be sacked needs to take a step back and get some perspective. He is one of the best managers out there and we are already seeing what he can do with a little bit of time and money. Lets give him some more of both and I bet we will continue to push on. But I think it is the minority that want him sacked. I mean Villa Park was definitely behind him and the team yesterday. We have almost come too far too quickly with how much people expect. It takes time if you want to really compete with the big 4 year in and year out. utv |
Steve Badger
said:
|
... NAN, Actually I do. Even though he spouts some bollocks, I actually think it's healthy to have an outsiders view. He has actually spoken some sense occasionally, as much as we might not want to hear it. I certainly wouldn't want to ban him for supporting his own (hopefully local)team. |
Martin Clabon
said:
|
... Nan I don't mind Le Shava, good to have a bit of challenge and he is not out and out disrespectful - just doesn't think much of the squad which is fair enough although I disagree. I think it is very generous of him to spend so much time on our blog, more than me and my wife moans about me always being on it - so not sure if the Arse blogs are shit or he just has a forgiving wife. Or may be he's too young to have slipped into the long good night, or maybe he's gay which is fine too. He really seems to like speninding time with us though |
Martin Clabon
said:
|
... Badger, I regret to say you are very, very right. I fear for the club if we lose MON. Like I said earlier, we could get lucky but who wants to take the chance? |
James
said:
|
... All good responses boys. Like Robbo said it has been very constructive on here lately and he is determined to take us off course, but hey 'vive la difference'. (I presume he's French) |
Jimbo Daventry Villa
said:
 |
... Le Shavar Have you ever won the European cup? No and until you do (which doesn't look possible in the near future) you will always live in the shadows of Aston Villa. |
Nick
said:
|
... Le Shava, you are wrong. But I dont blame you as many others are dumb enough to believe the same thing. Do you know how the PL works? Every team plays the exact same number of games against the exact same opposition. Every team gets what they deserve. You can say things like under performing and over performing but the fact is that generally means nothing, and is actually pretty ignorant to say that in the case of both these teams. You finished 3rd last season, you are on pace to finish 4th this season. Under performing I guess? We finished 6th last season, and are on pace to finish 5th this time. Over performing I guess? Perhaps a slight improvement for one team and a team with a slight decline? Or you just believe that the table from the 07-08 season is going to be the barometer for every team in every PL season? But you have always been sniffing around Aston Villa blogs right? Im sure they dont miss you on the Chelsea and Manchester United blogs. But hey I dont blame you for avoiding the Spuds sites, they do have more recent silverware and all. You are not smart |
Nick
said:
|
... Was that mean? That felt mean. For the record I dont like being mean, I am very happy and good natured. And I actually really like interacting with fans from other clubs. I love the different perspectives, as long as they are somewhat intelligent. Which is where Le shahvhaha falls short. I am sorry to say. |
adam
said:
 |
... well said nicky fuckin spot on. in terms of silverware the arse are the third best club in london at the minute ha ha |
Leroy
said:
|
... Unfortunately whilst Le Shava has made some good points, the fact remains the same for the Gunners. It wasnt so long ago that we were listening to the comments about Arsenal are a much bigger club, so are the Spurs....i think even a few Tooners came on here saying much similar things. Has anyone noticed how the conversation has changed over the last two years? Now we no longer hear the calls of "were a bigger club" and similar slurs. Now things ahve gotten a lot more serious havnt they? Aston Villas rise toward the top of the table from 16th has managed to make a few objective fans, like La Shava, take it upon themselves and talk seriously about top 4 and top 6.....i reckon thats brilliant. Aston Villa are now worthy of a decent conversation from rival clubs. It wasnt like that too long ago. If we manage to hold on to MON for a few years SAF will likely be retired, Chelsea will have gone throught their 7th coaching change, Spurs will have spent 200mil and still be outside the top 6 and last but not least, Arsene Wenger might very well have toddled off to Spain........things will be very different soon i feel, and judging by the increased interest from other top 6 clubs fans i reckon they feel it too... UP THE VILLA |
James
said:
|
... Leroy I'm officially handing over the 'Villa's Optimistic Cheerleader' jersey to you. You'll do a grand job. |
Martin Clabon
said:
|
... Nick it was a little mean but that's ok, Le Shava needs to get a more rounded perspective which he will do over time. Leroy it has been great to read your stuff lately - real resilience under adversity. Thought you were going over to the dark side at one point but you've come back stronger than ever. Well done |
Leroy
said:
|
... We all know that jumper is yours mate. You have been one of the few that has been able to control your emotions in a rollercoaster of season. I have certainly had my moments. The thing for me now is that i never post the same day as a result....bad result that is. I always check in the next day when i have digested what has happened rather than launch into the blame game. I love seeing little Martin jump 6cm off the ground when we score and i really do think the side has better days ahead. We are higher than 15 other sides, thats a lot of people worse off than us.....what do you think Nan....should everyone who comes on here for the rest of the night give the three letter salute? Maybe ill start it off.... UTV |
Le Shava
said:
|
... "Have you ever won the European cup? No and until you do (which doesn't look possible in the near future) you will always live in the shadows of Aston Villa." Ever heard the phrase, " You have to believe it to sell it"?  Same goes for you Nick, your jibe at us having less silverware than Tottenham because of their recent success in a cup in which we play our U-21's is far from "intelligent" or "smart". Clutching at straws maybe? Although i do concede that tottenham hotspur are a team far superior to your own, and this will be illustrated next season, i am sure of that. Same goes for City. As for your argument regarding our "decline", we will have to reserve judgement until the end of the season considering we are still in 3 competitions. One of those being The Champions League where we have one foot in the semi's. We aren't like your pathetic club, and we don't get ourselves knocked out of competitions in a weak attempt to secure specific league positions. Honestly, the day O'Neill engineered that loss was the day you lost the majority of your support from other fans. Utterly pathetic. |
FKev
said:
|
... Nan I get cheesed off with all the Untouchable Stuff. Life is good we have a better chairman, he has looked after the infrastructure appointed a good manager but questions are not allowed by the rose tinted brigade. I never question formation it all about the team geling & Mon is great at this. I think Luke plays better out of position. I do not enjoy the sit back & catch them out fotball but if that is the the best we can do with our players so be it. I think Matchdays are for blind faith & support any other time is open season. |
Anthony Laud
said:
|
... sidcowan - you say above a reason you are happy with oneil as he is overachieveing with the squad he has. This is part of my point when i say i am not happy with the job he is done. How good would you say our squad is? i would say probably 8th-10th best in the league. based on your comment about overachieveing i assume you agree. to me that shows up mons failures - 3 years in the job and he has spent 100m and has onyl managed to develop a squad that you and i both believe is about the 8th-10th best. Ok so he might get more out of them but i would expect that any manager that hadnt got to that stage after spending that amount of money in 3 years would be sacked! I do believe Oneil is a v good man manager and this backs up you point on overachieving, i am sure other managers could have done as good a job though and have built a squad that is not overachieving but still finishing 5th or 6th. to put mon on this pedestal clsiming he is that good and irreplaceable is ridiculous - he isnt that good! |
Leroy
said:
|
... La Shava - just on your last comment, i thought it was a bit lame by you to start throwing the term pathetic around. Villa are clearly not a pathetic club. I agree with your point about engineering the loss (if your talking about our eufa exit). There are many fans on here that dont agree 100% with what the manager does. I mean how many Arsenal fans were filled with joy when the legend Henry was sold? It turned out to be a great decision, exactly the same with Beckham. MON took a punt and decided to rest our players and basically forfeited the eufa cup for this year.....i didnt like it so much, but i understood his intentions. He pulls the strings and if you ask me he has done a pretty fine job thus far. I think one massive point you are missing, is that Arsenal have been up at the top for a long long time....we havnt been. Give a bit of credit mate, our club has really made some big steps and are going in the right direction....we are certainly not pathetic as you put it UTV |
Anthony Laud
said:
|
... and please will people stop saying we have a young squad! this is the biggest myth on here. we actually have one of the oldest in the premiership. the average age of our startign lineup on sunday was over 27! That is not young! Arsenal put out a team the other day with an average age of 22! |
Nick
said:
|
...Although i do concede that tottenham hotspur are a team far superior to your own So you're saying that arsenal are in big trouble next season? |
Steve Badger
said:
|
... FKEV, Don't get me wrong, MON is far from untouchable in my eyes and while I think constructive criticism is even desirable, there is a big danger that things can get seriously distorted when you start reading threads on the net. Whilst I'll hold my hands up and say I don't go down the Villa much lately, mainly because of working away a lot and cost, I really wonder how much history of actual support, some of the critics have???? I'm proud in that I have followed Villa all over the country on and off over the last 40 years. Of course, turning up for games is not the be-all-and-end-all and it's not a dig at you, as I don't know your history. But I seriously suspect many critics haven't been to too many games, ever. As Leroy said, the crowd are behind the team and MON, without doubt. I just hope MON and the team don't read the negative criticism that is becoming seemingly dominant on the net, as I really don't think it's a genuine picture of what most fans think. |
Mike Carter
said:
|
... What kind of twat comes onto a VILLA board to wind up the fans anyway, someone with far too much spare time on their hands if you ask me. At the end of the day the only thing Arsenal will be able to boast over us is the fact they finished higher, because they won't be winning any cups. I guess they could boast massive debt as well, we don't have that I guess. |
Michael panizza
said:
 |
... Still festering on here Le Shava? How small is your dick? You can't get a shag so you spend all day taunting rival fans on the internet? Have you tried going out? You sad, sad muppet. |
Steve Badger
said:
|
... VIVAVILLA, I thought the same in that Arse are in the shite regarding money and indeed posted the same on a couple of their forums. But it seems, strangely enough, they are one of the most solvent clubs in the British game, given their (IIRC) £225 mill of assets  In this case, it's all about London property prices. But Arsenal fans would do well to remember Arsenal were rated no better than us before Wenger came in. We missed a chance to push on bacause of a certain shopkeeper, whereas they gambled. Shoot, it's history now, but the fact is Arse are currently better and bigger than us, simple. If we give MON a chance, I can see this changing. |
James
said:
|
... FKev I take your point about match days and blind faith. I know I am as guilty as anyone for avoiding the grey areas. It just seems there are a number of people on here who are always negative. I imagine they are ONLY negative when on here. I cannot believe that they spend their time at work, down the pub etc, saying how shit MON is etc. There are others, who I have more understanding for, who are happy and all is fine if we win, but everything is shit and we're going backwards if we lose. I guess Leroy has found a good solution to avoid this sort of thing. It's not my usual bag, but just for you Leroy.... UTV |
no10
said:
 |
... mick hartford has taken luton down to some division i have never herd of, we could have him in place mon . and i believe they love him. |
FKev
said:
 |
... Nan I am guilty of posting negative posts, even chatting to my mates at half time Saying WHY Hesky & What good games have we really seen down VP this season (not just games we have won either). It must be a time of life thing but I can honestly say the gregory & the late Ellis years really wore me down. I was so excited with the takeover the way they talked not about throwing £notes at everything that is Obscene, some were even optimostic of having a Fans rep. What did we get the King of spin the General, Cheif execs talking about exciting times Transfer Specs. Yes i was hoping Mon would look at our young blood with open eyes & dig up gems like wenger & build the club with the lifeblood the fans. In reality it has been publicity stunts panic buys & paying way over the odds for average or players with a history. But on a positive note we are far better off, we are not looking down, its a shame even the manager beleived his own hype & threw it all away chasing the CL |
Steve Badger
said:
|
... Tonebone, I don't see how you arrive at your figures and I get it to be an average age of 25.36. Seeing as Friedel is 37, that makes it seem worse than it really is. Whatever, I take your point in that we're not particularly a young team. But then with your sums, The arse's average of 22 is probably wrong too Of course, you're welcome to post facts and prove me wrong |
Jeremiah
said:
 |
... I don't think MON is blameless for some of our struggles this season, but clearly he is a good manager - he took a team on the verge of being relegated and made it a consistent European qualifier to compete with the likes of Everton, Spurs, etc... I do agree the team has struggled playing 4-4-2, but I think that's just because we play counter-attacking football, which 4-5-1 seems to favor. But I think MON goes with 4-4-2 because he thinks the team will attack best with a big guy (Carew or Heskey) and a small, quick player (Gabby) playing. That's the style he's always played, so it's no surprise we're playing it. As far as our squad being bad, I don't agree. We have a number of players who have been coveted by the Champions League teams and Spurs or Everton. It's just a small squad. Compare our starting 11 to West Ham, Wigan or Fulham, all competing for the 7th slot. As far as Spurs go, they're more of a big club in name. They sign a boatload of players every year, finish 10th and then go on a run in one of the cups, then talk about how they'll challenge for the Top 4 next year. I have faith that we'll finish the season strong, sign some players and will be competing for a Champions League spot next year - just like we have to some extent the last two seasons. I'd rather be there than 16 and hoping not to drop points to Boro in the race to beat the drop. |
Anthony Laud
said:
|
... more than happy to prove it badger Friedal - 37 Knight - 28 Davies - 24 Young - 29 Shorey - 28 Barry - 28 Petrov - 29 Carew - 29 Young - 23 Milner - 23 Gabby - 22 Total - 300 - average 27.27 if you think thats wrong please expalin how you arrived at 25.36 seeeing as at the start of the season arsenal had only 4 players 25 or over in their entire squad i expect that figure is right. i know there average squad was 21 at the start of the seaosn but i went by the commentators average when watching there champs league game! we have one of the oldest squads its a fact so i wish people would stop saying its young and built for the future |
Marcus Smith
said:
 |
... You are confusing squad and starting 11. Much of our squad are reserve player ages 17 - 20. |
Anthony Laud
said:
|
... if u read above my first comment i said average age of our starting 11 on sunday! badger is the one confused! |
Mike Carter
said:
|
... Where do you get the idea Arsenal only had 4 players aged 25 or over? I count 7: Almunia, Gallas, Toure, Rosicky, Eboue, Sagna and Van Persie (just). |
Martin Clabon
said:
|
... Tonebone, not sure you and I are as far away from each other as you think. I don't think MON is untouchable but I do think he is as good as we are likely to get at the moment. He has only spent big in one transfer window and the cost of players is inflated somewhat by: -Buying at a point where transfer fees are generally inflated -Trying to buy English (yes this is his choice but there is an English premium) -Villa not being as attractive as some other clubs - Desperation because of some glaring gaps in the squad which he had to address and hence acknowleged he overpaid for Milner to try and plug a gap I take your point that he has had 3 years (nearly) to strengthen the squad - it's just that I don't think it's that easy to do it and hence the squad is not as strong as you and I would wish (or MON). Hence we are below some other teams in terms of quality in depth and hence MON has relied on helping the players over achieve. I don't believe he is about to be given a fortune to pend so continuing to overachieve is going to be crucial I absolutely respect the passion of fans who point out our shortcomings assuming they are positive on a match day and don't boo the team (which I believe you are). The decision I have made is a personal one and it is that as I believe we are moving forward (present blip aside) and MON is on balance likely to do a better job than his likely replacements I am going to do everything I can to support him and the team, not just on match day. The comments on this site and elsewhere undoubtedly come to the attention of players and staff and if we are over the top it could hasten Martin's exit and this I believe would be trouble for us. Also, I guess I have a positive outlook on life and while I get literally sick when we lose I am depressed enough without reading a load of negative stuff on this site (yes I could avoid but somewhat addicted). So I respect your views and those of the likes of FKev who point out some of the deficiencies in the squad/ MON but have chosen to walk a different path. I hope you respect this position too and understand it doesn't mean I can not see MON's shortcomings and it doesn't make me blind and an idiot Passion for the club can come out in more than one way |
James
said:
|
... I do believe we have reached some sort of agreement. Villa are moving forward. There are some problems that need addressing. MON is on the whole a great manager. Now, when does that Transfer Window open? |
Anthony Laud
said:
|
... vivavilla - that was my mistake it was 4 players over 25 not including those 25 years old |
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