Written by Damian Monday, 14 September 2009 09:18
This is a post-mortem and I often forget to look at the details but I've sort of summed it all up in the title I think. Birmingham City have no bottle and on the performance that they put on in front of their home supporters yesterday is anything to go by, then they will be relegated this season.
It wasn't just because they were poor, it was mostly that they started the game not wanting to win. They merely wanted us to not score. They played for a goalless draw and it was shocking.
There as actually a moment in the second half when their striker, all up by himself, chasing a long ball cleared by his defence and didn't get it, turned to his team mates and urged them to come forward. It was quite embarrassing but understandable, it was their biggest match of the season.
What The Papers Say
Sam Wallace, The Independent
When Martin O'Neill made the decision to chase this game in the last 15 minutes it was John Carew rather than Heskey whom he picked to force the issue for Villa. Carew got the knockdown from Ashley Young's free kick from the right which Agbonlahor reacted to the quickest. Unmarked he headed the ball past Joe Hart from close range and this game was all but over.
Janine Self, The Sun It was a similar story in the stands. A muted atmosphere with none of the hostility that tends to mark Second City derbies at either venue. Some Villa fans turned up in swine flu masks - a jibe at the ground they call the Pigsty. Hardly threatening. In the end it was Birmingham followers who reluctantly had to adopt The Streets' 'Dry Your Eyes, Mate' as their theme tune of the day.
Stuart James, Guardian
Birmingham had battled valiantly and managed to subdue Villa for long periods during a stodgy affair, but the absence of a cutting edge rendered a late equaliser unlikely. Indeed, it was Villa who came closest to scoring again, with Agbonlahor squandering an excellent chance when he shot over after racing clear in the 89th minute and John Carew and James Milner contriving to make a mess of another fine opportunity with the goal at their mercy.
The Manager
Martin O'Neill
But we were brilliant at the back too. I thought the three debutants were terrific. They played really, really well. You'd think they had played quite some considerable time together. But we have only had the two days to do some work but they fitted in excellently. We kept a clean sheet.
The Players
The Clowns (4-5-1): Hart, Tainio, Johnson, Queudrue, Parnaby, Ferguson, Larsson, Bowyer, Fahey, McFadden (Carsley, 45; Phillips, 85), O'Connor (Benitez, 79). Subs not used: Taylor, Espinoza, McSheffrey, Johnson.
Aston Villa (4-5-1): Friedel, Cuellar, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Milner, Sidwell, Reo-Coker (Carew, 75), Petrov, Young, Agbonlahor. Substitutes not used: Guzan, Delph, Heskey, Shorey, Beye, Gardner.
Man of the Match
This has surprised me, although in the same breath it hasn't but it has gone to Richard Dunne with 40.7% of the vote and he was followed by James Collins with 29.5% of the vote. Stephen Warnock came in 6th place with just under 2% of the vote and Gabby was third. You can see the full results here.
Some Stats
We are up to sixth, with a game in hand. If we win that game 2-0 against West Ham, we'll be in fourth place. Not bad is it? We also made 325 passes of which 266 were successful and we failed on 59.
Final Analysis
You just have to be happy with the result. Blues came out looking to defend for 90 minutes and they did their job, although had we gotten lucky we could have been one or two up before the need to bring on John Carew, but we weren't and it did change the game when he came on.
However I suspect the main talking point today is going to be formation. The Clowns would go on and on about this result for days if they had won, we have to move on as we have a match coming up, but formation is an important issue to tackle.
We started playing 451, we sort of had too as it was successful for us and they were starting with 451 - if you start a match against lesser teams even with a man short in midfield, as we saw against Wigan, it can be fatal. So we lined up how we all hoped we would and it worked.
But Blues defended and that was their main objective; we saw that with decision to bring on and take off Carsley. Never mind. With 15 minutes to go, Carew was brought on and we went a proper 4-3-3, some might even sat 4-2-4 when we had the ball, you saw people running everywhere. Ten minutes later we scored.
As soon as we scored, we went back to 4-5-1 and Blues went very much a 4-4-2 with the introduction of a striker for their defensive midfielder Carsley, who was only on the pitch for 40 minutes. At the end of the day, we started the match in 451, for 10 minutes we played differently by pushing everything forward, because The Clowns were sitting back and we got what we deserved and the only thing that matters.
But for me, the talking point today should be our defenders. There was a point in the first half where their right winger Larsson got a chance to have a shot and a second or two later, I saw four claret and blue shirt diving in to stop it. It made the day for me.
It was as you would have hoped but it was nice to see. If Collins and Dunne play like that on a regular basis it is going to be hard for Curtis, but they won't and he is an excellent defender so I expect to ultimately see him back.
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leftwingextremist
said:
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... Poor game, good result. End of story. On a separate note, as you know, I'm the last one to criticise MON but I thought the decision to play Cuellar at RB was a bit odd. Has he bought another full back in Beye that he doesn't actually like the look of that much? |
Damian
said:
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... It is quite interesting however seeing their teamsheet quite possibly made it easier for him to make that decision |
Jimbo Daventry Villa
said:
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... The back four were solid. I was a bit nervous at first seeing 3 of them making their debuts but the rose to the challenge. I thought Collins was MOM. Gabby always does the business in big games, The feeling when the ball hit the back of the net was worth every single penny of the £48. |
vivavilla
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... I don't think it's all that odd. Beye is better at getting forward but Cuellar is quite comfortabley a better defender. O'Neill obviously wanted the best defenders he had on the pitch. Though on reflection it did slightly unbalance the back four, because we saw that Warnock is very good at getting forward and made some superb overlaps. |
Craigy1874
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...leftwingextremist said: Mate its simply cause cuellar is a better defender than beye and that proved with some great tackles and good headers. However Beye is definitely better going forward. |
ALAN JONES
said:
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... outplayed in middle of park for 75 mins.We wont finish in top 10.We had 120 million pounds out there they had 10 & you could not tell the differerence!! |
Pancho Villan
said:
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... Formation Schmoration. It was a dire match. We need some creativity in midfield. In the end, MON gambled they were too crap to score against us. MON brought on Carew and went 4-4-2 It worked and we won. We did not play 4-3-3 or revert to 4-5-1. We just grabbed a late winner, and saw the game out by defending in numbers. |
Villa_Chris
said:
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... I thought the defence was superb. Never really watched Collins play before, thought he was absolutely solid. Same goes for Dunne. Damian, you seem to rate Davies highly, but going to all the games and watching him live, I can tell you he's not worth anywhere near his price tag and certainly isn't as composed as any of the other CB's we have. Saying that, he was good in his last two games before injury. The op came at the wrong time for him. A solid defence is what everyone wanted, and now we have it. Lets give O'Neill some praise ay. He never did that badly in the window after all, did he?  |
Delago
said:
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... Villa_Chris Saying that, he was good in his last two games before injury. The op came at the wrong time for him. He was all over the shop against Rapid. |
jonnie5
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... Thought collins was fantatsic not only his defending but his range of passing was second to none. Watching Dunne organise the back line was very pleasing to see, born leader. Also Gabbys movement for goal, the way he created the space for himself was very clever. Nice to see Gabby is improving as a player and just standing still, his done alot of work in the summer its nice to see. Now getting to formation, I beleive we should of gone 4-4-2 against blues. I belive there are certain teams you play 4-5-1 against and some teams you play 4-4-2. I think top 4 and maybe the likes of man city,spurs and everton need to be shown the respect of that formation. Yet the rest of the teams dont have our quality and like blues will be looking more at not getting beat than trying to actually beat us. Therefore we should play 4-4-2 and take the game to them IMO. UTV |
ak_27
said:
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... Curtis Davies long term lay off will be a blesing in disguise. He is crap. He was crap before his injury also so that is no excuse for the guy. I just hope Sidwell also gets injured so thet we don't have to watch anymore of his anonymous displays in the centre of the park. He did nothing yesterday and i really couldn't understand taking NRC off instead of Sidwell. |
Villa_Chris
said:
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... In the words of Pancho Villan: Formation Schmoration  All this talk of formations.... At then end of the day, its refreshing to see O'Neill using his noggin and making changes to line-ups, formations and making substitutes during games, thats all that matters! He can mix it up now we have a strong squad. |
ak_27
said:
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... I thougt Collins was top notch yesterday. Not only was he comanding defesively but he was also very good with his distribution. Like someone pointed out yesterday he hit one fantastic 50 yard diagonal ball at one stage that really impressed. Dunne was solid yesterday and he will improve and i can't wait to see Warnock play at VP. I thought he was very good and he will turn out to be a very good signing. For the first time in ages i really felt confident we weren't going to conceed and i haven't felt like that in years to be honest. |
Monkeywrench
said:
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... Great result, piss poor game and top performances from the 2 new central defenders. Hopefully some of the bright sparks on here will give Gabby a break and will not start judging Warnock based on one game but I wont hold much hope on that one. We still desperately need a ball-playing midfielder, as we are (451) we will always be difficult to break down though. |
ak_27
said:
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... Villa_Chris but you not think that MON should have made that obvious move far earlier in the game? It was crying out for Carew and a move to 442 from very early in the game and it should have been made at HT in my opinion. We scored from a very dodgy free kick which Young fabricated himself and fair play to him for doing it. But what im saying is had that not been given we could have come away from a game againest a very poor outfit with only 1 point instead of 3 becasue MON was again very slow at making the obvious tactical changes. I also thought Cullar should have been brought off for Beye as he was destroying many of our attacking oppertunitys due to his inablity to use the ball. There were some very good positives yersterday but also some negative left over issues from last season also that if not sorted out will cost us points down the line. |
JohnnyMcleod
said:
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... Sidwell has had long enough now and needs to be dropped, you hardly see him during the course of a game except when he pops up for his token near miss. He doesn't have a pass on him and I can't for the life of me see what he contributes other than minor nuisance value. |
Arthur villa
said:
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... ak27 - why post messages just to moan?? also hoping Sidwell gets injured just shows you for what you are. Pathetic son, unbelievable really that you wish injury on your own players. Unfortunately there are to many of you who go down, just like at the wigan game booing and moaning after 20mins. Yes it was poor but we really dont need t**ts like you supporting our team. Regarding yesterdays game, it was never going to be pretty, it was all about the result and the fact is we beat the chain wearing scummers (again) and i can sit at work today with a big smile on my face!! 3 more points in the next game and we're sitting pretty with 4 wins from 5, sure we'd have took that at the start of the season (except ak27 of course ha!) |
MerryMan
said:
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... Villa_Chris - Agree, O'Neill should be man of the match. He went to plan B to snaffle a goal then reverted back to plan A to see the game out. Fancy us to take 6 points from portsmoth and blackburn. |
Delago
said:
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... I too was impressed with Collins yesterday. Didn't really see a whole pile of him before his move and was surprised, but glad that he started. He was pretty tidy. |
rob h
said:
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... what a difference a few days make. Collins was batterred on here just a few days ago. 'waste of money' 'no better than knight' 'mon is clueless' the usual shite that some villa fans spout on here before the a ball is even kicked. So hands up who were the ones saying it and who is going to be 2 faced and now say he looks good and mon does actually know what he is doing? This is not aimed at point scoring or digging against mons or collins doubters. I just think that this is a perfect time to draw a line in the sand and pledge not to judge the manager after one game (wigan), a player before he has kicked a ball (collins) and a manager signings before they have been given c chance to perform. I would like to echo some of the points above and the stand out to me was the bloos corners and crosses at the end of the game. I could have sworn Laursen was there heading them all away? very well done and we looked solid. I am very impressed |
ak_27
said:
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... Arthur villa its not moaning its being realistic. No point in over looking certian issues just for the sake of it. This is a blog to discuss football. I meantioned the poistives which were fantastic but if we are to be real contenders for a cl spot then other area's have to be improved. I can't over state how poor a team we were playing yesterday and their piss poor midfield was as good as ours. The sidwell comment was tongue in cheek. I don't want him injured but i also don't want him on the pitch as he has been useless since he joined. |
Chiefy
said:
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... Well I think the plan worked yesterday, they didnt want to win the game just not lose. 4-5-1 did its job but i was screaming for Carew at half time and take Sidwell off, other than his point blank header he was missing for most of the game think he might have heskyitus coming. I think if we would have changed at half time we could have murdered them. I can see why MON did though so late on he was playing it safe. All in all a good day at the office yesterday Collins was great, Warnock looks good even if a little to attack minded maybe ? and Dunne was great i think he will live up to the number 5 shirt i really do. Happy for Gabby glad he got another one over the blues. Not to many complaints really just dont understand Sidwell or what he brought to us yesterday was it another practice with 10 men ??? Bring on Portsmouth 3 points there me thinks going for a 2-0 on that one now we have a solid back line that will be even better with a weeks training under their belts |
Elvis at Left Back
said:
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... Yes it was a piss poor game, but what did you expect?? Blues set their stall out early on, they came to stop us scoring, playing for a draw, and to be fair pretty much did their job. We had to grind this result out, take an opportunity when it arose, some didn't Gabby did one one occaision, missed others. Dunne & Collins were impressive as our CM partnership, tho I'm not strictly convinced by Warnock yet, but I wont knock him til I've seen more. Ash was double marked out of the ganme so was quite quiet by his standards, Milly had an off day by his current standards. Midfield did their job pretty much, I wonder how Delph would have coped?? IMO MoN made the right decision at the right time, yes the game was calling out for Carew much earlier, but ever the tactician Martin did it when he thought they were ready to face Big John. Well done the lads, UTV |
gareth
said:
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... alan jones you are a mug wont finish top ten you aint got a clue come may you will see what a plonker that you are how about gettin behind the team some people are never happy we all know that derby matches are never good in terms of the football that gets played its all about the result which we got by the way and if you cant enjoy things when the villa are winning then why bother to follow then at all |
Elvis at Left Back
said:
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... well said RobH, you won't get a response tho, it'll be the same old same |
YatesyVillain
said:
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... Lot of mention of formations, but I was pretty sure 4-4-2 won it in the end? |
Delago
said:
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... Rob H This is not aimed at point scoring or digging against mons or collins doubters. Hate to be the one to say it but it seems thats exactly what you're doing. |
churchill
said:
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...I saw four claret and blue shirt diving in to stop it.It made the day for me. I remember the incident clearly. It was better than sex. (Well, nearly...). Commitment, courage, heart, discipline. This is a defence I can believe in. We will fight them in the suburbs. We will fight them in the boozers. We will fight them in B6 and in B9. We will fight them in the league and in the Cups. We will never surrender. |
eoin1981
said:
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... The bottom line is we won a game, its a great three points and if we can win next saturday it will have been an excellent start. I do take issue with the description of our performance though (and yes I realise that results are all that matter). Birmingham's performance, set-up and ambition are being laughed at. Villa are a club with top 4 ambitions and for the first 70minutes yesterday - Birminham were, admittedly slightly, the better team. We had the same formation as them. We too set out not too concede. We actually attacked LESS than them. We hoofed the ball MORE than they did. Talk today is of how well Dunne and Collins played and rightly so - but this shows how much of the play was in our half of the pitch. If ever a match showed the limitations of playing 100% on the counter attack and having only 1 striker - it was yesterday. If we were playing for another 2 days 4-5-1 vs 4-5-1 it would still be scoreless. 4-5-1 is great when teams attack villa - see Anfield, other than that it will result it just doesn't suit us. If people think 4-5-1 did what it was supposed to do for 70minutes yesterday - then we have different ambitions. Are you happy that we too played for a 0-0 and set out to stop Birmingham, thats Birmingham, a team who will be relegated, from playing? If you laugh at Birminghams ambition yesterday - you laugh at our own. Switching to 4-4-2, having 2 strikers and pressing well up the pitch is what won us the game yesterday. Gabby scores another winner at St. Andrews, worked like a horse, created a chance out of nothing for Milner in the first half with a great cross - great vision, and still nobody gives him any praise. |
vivavilla
said:
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... Let's not get too carried away, Collins played well but he'll face far tougher opposition than that. Having said that I do think he's an upgrade on Davies though. Davies looks like a rabbit in the headlights when he has the ball at his feet, totally clueless. Collins looked pretty calm and his passing was good. Plus he was superb in the air. |
Badger
said:
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... ak_27, Don't forget that was a side that outplayed Spuds in the second half at their own gaff. I don't think they're as bad as you make out. Their problem is they lack a cutting edge, so have to play to their abilities. These, imo, are trying to stifle the game and they're pretty effective at it. I think many sides will find them difficult to penetrate. That said, I don't want to concentrate on them. Regardless of how ugly it was, we got the result, now it's time to move on. I just want to throw a couple of things in the pot though. Is anyone else starting to worry about our lack of goals coming from open play? Don't get me wrong, I'll take a goal anyway it comes, but Jinksy (I think)alluded to it last night in that we never had a shot on target in the first half. Is that acceptable as long as we keep scoring from set plays? And before anyone says I'm moaning, I'm not. I'm just asking the question. Second thing is Damian, Pompey next week. I propose 4-4-2! |
keefvilla
said:
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... Poor game, good result, great night, awful hangover sums it up for me. Rob H - well said! ak_27 Dunne did good. Does anyone know if Bill Howell has been kicked off reporting on Villa for the Birmingham Mail? I bought it today for the first time in ages (wonder why?) and Bill was reporter for the Wolves match and reporting on the Villa game is Mat Kendrick "our man at the Villa". |
Richo
said:
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... I'll start off by saying that I wasn't at the game so this perception is entirely from watching on Sky. I thought we played poorly for the majority of the game, with Birmingham looking quite happy on the ball with Bowyer creating a nuisance. Luckily their end product was useless so was never really a threat. Bowyer regularly lost his man to find space off O'Conner and we were quite often exposed behind our full backs. To be fair, I can forgive this given the 3 of the 4 were all debuts. I thought Milner played awfully, squandered passes, crosses were often just to the first man and cleared (remember a couple being ok), his first chance didn't take a deflection and was poorly taken, the other chances I can understand as to why they weren't on target and I even saw the funny side of the Carew / Milner mix up. Overall, unhappy with the performance, but pleased by Dunne and Collins, thought they both looked very solid and that really gives MoN a headache to select his 2 best CBs. Good result but we need to and we will improve. |
vivavilla
said:
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... I wouldn't say we attacked less than them. Yes we were under the cosh for 10 minutes or so, but that's to be expected - they were at home. They're going to have the advantage of the crowd powering them on for the bried amount of time it lasts. We rode it, dealt with everything they threw at us, and got back into the game. We created a lot more genuine chances than they did. Milner missed a hat-trick of scoreable opportunities. Gabby stuffed up an easy header. Not to mentioned the two ridiculous chances at the death which should have both been goals. What did Blues create? Nothing of note. A couple of long range shots easily dealt with by Friedel, a few nervy scrambles, and countless balls into the box that we won almost every time. I'd say we were much the better team going forward and making chances. |
afvcbob
said:
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... It was never going to be the greatest game - result mattered more than preformance. Quality debuts for Collins and Dunne and a brave decision by MON to play them both in a derby game. Sidwell imo offers nothing to the team and went missing throughout the game, but full marks to the Villa in getting another one over the shite fc UTV |
Christian1983
said:
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... Afternoon guys, what a great outcome. I went to the game yesterday and sat in the Tilton with my boss, who's a bluenose!! I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The HARDEST thing in the world not to go beserk when we scored or shout 'clear it' when we were defending- I feared for my life  Delighted with the 3 points, I'd have settled for a draw all day long. The defence was very solid, particularly at set pieces. My overall take on it... a pretty poor game. I thought we were substandard (defense exempt) but they were even worse. They caused Friedel to make 2-3 routine saves from 25 yards- if that's all they can create at home in a local derby they didn't deserve anything. It's been said on here earlier, but the constant, constant, constant long ball from our back 4 is soul-destroying! We had a 5 man midfield and decided to bypass it every single time, now I'm not sure if that is MON's instructions or just inept players, either way we looked like Bolton on a bad day. And my final gripe, Steven Sidwell. Arguably the worst player to ever grace claret n blue. Even the noses sitting nearby were saying 'what the hell happened to him, he's f*cking sh*te'!!! It really is time he was left out, he's had opportunities and the guy simply is not good enough at Premiership level. Gardner and Delph must've been wondering what the world has come to if they have to sit on the bench whilst he struts around anywhere but where the action is. Well, the performance wasn't great but St Andrew's is a tough place to go so I'm delighted with 3 points! Hopefully we can put on a bit of a show on Saturday |
leftwingextremist
said:
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... I think that it's pretty unlikely that we will finish outside of the top 10. There are about 7 who will be fighting the drop - Hull, Portsmouth, Bolton, Wolves, Blues, Burnley, Stoke. About 5 more who would snap your hand off for mid-table now - Wigan, Fulham, West Ham, Sunderland, Blackburn 3 who look pretty nailed on for top 4 - Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool We're in the other 5 that could finish anywhere from 4th to 8th. As a football fan I actually think it could be a really interesting season because there are going to be more teams capable of taking points off the top clubs, which should make it much less predictable than in recent years. |
vivavilla
said:
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... leftwingextremist I think Sunderland are after something more than just a midtable finish. They've spent a fair bit of cash and they've got more than a decent team now. I reckon they're on for 7th, maybe more if any team above them should fluff it up. |
holteend paul
said:
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... great result.... i dont care how the game went and how well we played because at the end of the day it was our derby game and we won. i think the only down point for me was that the clowns were shite and played for a draw which gave my bluenose mate an excuse to worm his way out of a good mouth battering from me, as it stands now, i half wish they hammered us for 85 minutes and then we knicked it with a killer punch as i think they would have found that harder to take instead of the whimpering performance they gave playing at home... utv. |
Azad
said:
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... "outplayed in middle of park for 75 mins.We wont finish in top 10.We had 120 million pounds out there they had 10 & you could not tell the differerence!!" Allan Jones, you a bluenose? yes we didnt play very well but if the opposition have only one intention and that is to defend then it can be tough, but we won. and about the money spent, did you watch the Arsenal v Man city match? city had 200millions worth but arsenal outplayed them for most of the match, even though city won so your argument doesnt stan!! |
DeGough
said:
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... Well the game was "tight". Not not space with both teams playing 5 in the middle and for a lot of the time cancelled each other out. We won because we went for it first. I point I would make is that the clowns will get enough points to stay up if they continue to play like that. It is endorsed by the fact that our defense were so busy. Anyway I prefer to take 6 points off them every year! |
ak_27
said:
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... Badger maybe you are right and they aren't as bad as i make out but i made that call on yesterdays game really. What kinda annoyed me yesterday was the fact after 5mins of the 2nd half it was obvious that there was nothing there to be scared off. The game was there to won far earlier then we did it. I believe that MON should have brought Carew on for Sidwell and also Beye on for Cullar very early in that second half instead of being so over cautious and slow. That to me is just more of the same as last season. Very slow at making the tactical changes needed. The moment Carew came on their midfield fell away and also Ashley got far more space as he could no longer be so easily be double marked as they now also had to deal with Carew. Yes we won the game and im delighted but it just showed me that some of the same issues that cost us last season are still evident. And i agree with you Badger that we should go with a 442 at home to Pompy. Pertov and NRC in the centre. Hopefully we will have either Young or Beye playing and then we will have proper attacking full backs to really get at them. |
ak_27
said:
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... Keef ive seen him play better then he did yesterday so hopefully that is only the start of it. Collins was probably better yesterday. |
geoff
said:
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... I agrre with some of the copmments of those who have puported to have attended the match. I watched on sky and felt much happier with the defence but concerned by the midfield. However I put that down to the negative tendencies of the Blues. Overall much happier with the results and eventually this team wil;l get better, we have a squad and yes there will be some casualties over the season, but I do feel that we are progressing in the right direction. Well done lads! |
rob h
said:
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... I am looking today at villas closest rivals this season and it looks more and more likely it will be spurs. everton are really struggling fulham - we beat them easily we will have to wait and see. For me 5th place is for us to throw away and the top 4 is certainly within our grasp. I said a week or so back that the blues game could make or break our season. Now we have won we can concentrate on beating the other teams. we should beat portsmouth and then the players will start to feel 'invincible'. then you seem to get the rub of the green and so on. If this new look back 4 can build on the promising debut I see no reason for us not to push the arse and liverpool for the top 3. as long as we can keep some momentum going and be up there come DJ's arrival he can give us a boost to carry us to february when we will be calling for squeeky bum times. I dont want to get ahead but if this new look defence can concede 10 goals less this season than last plus we score as many we will be right up there. |
keefvilla
said:
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... ak_27 It was a difficult match to make a debut in. High pressured and playing alongside 2 other debutants. A couple of times I think that he could have cleared the ball rather than concede a corner, but we keep a clean sheet and he did win a lot of headers. So far I am happy. |
ak_27
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... rob h where do you think DJ will play? Id forgotten about him. I think you forgot about City. They look the real deal. |
keefvilla
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... leftwingextremist I would put Liverpool in the group that could finish anywhere between 3rd and 8th. No way are they good enough to be pretty nailed on for top 4. Two good wins against Stoke and Burnley, one very lucky win against Bolton and two defeats isn't top 3 quality to me. |
holteend paul
said:
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... i still think if we finish higher than 8th it will still be a good season as all around us have pushed on aswell, dont write everton off again as they had a poor start last season and still finished higher than us. |
Guy Spreadbury
said:
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... Why not drop Sidwell and put Carew in Team. Push Milner into the centre and play Gabby wide right. That way we could alternate between 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 depending how the game is going. |
Damian
said:
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... Guy Spreadbury Good idea on change ... but you'll need Gabby to work his little socks off down the right and it will mean that Young wouldn't be able to easily switch sides .. but a good idea. |
Goldie 7
said:
 |
... Firstly i did vote for Dunne as motm just because i saw him taking control in defence and wasn't too fazed by his debut but come on the filth hardly tested us we shouldn't be going to mad lets see what happens when we play the likes of everton spurs city gunners those will be the real test! The noses players are average at best We won that's all that matters there were plenty of games last season where a draw looked certain but we conjured up something and nicked all the points!! The hammers pompey and hull game all spring to mind when i think about our performance yeah it wasn't pretty i blame milner if he had his mind right we really should have been 2or3 up way before we saw carew on another day he'll score a hatrick. As someone said i'm also glad he sticked with him i would of taken off sidwell instead of coker though. People are to quickly to jump on the formation issues what if we did play 442 from the start and we conceded goals the entire post match post would of been why didn't he stick with 451 you all make me laugh! By the 65 minute mark we wore them out and they looked gone we had 3 clear chances to score before the goal and after 2 one on one's with the keeper? I would go 451 playing pompey they need a win and will be doing everything possible to get it if we haven't score by the 60mins mark make some changes! Remember when we start with 451 most of the time we end up winning the game regardless if we changed formation late on. |
Pancho Villan
said:
|
...rob h said: I remember reading the wisdom of your words. These are indeed exciting times |
odysseynumberfive
said:
 |
... Can somebody tell me what version the Bluenoses sing? Is it Sol Campbell-esque or something? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/astonvilla/6187706/Taunts-motivated-Gabby-Agbonlahor-in-Aston-Villas-derby-win-over-Birmingham.html |
Greg Davillain1887
said:
 |
...the usual shite that some villa fans spout on here before the a ball is even kicked. So hands up who were the ones saying it and who is going to be 2 faced and now say he looks good Rob H, I was one who critisesd, ( a hell of a lot) At the time we were talking about van der vaart, sneider, upson and defour, then we were told we had a bid in for little known collins, i was disheatned at the time to say the least. I unfairly slated collins, but then researched him on west ham blogs and saw that west ham fans were dissapointed to lose him and that most thought he was as good as upson. On yesterdays performance, its like having laursen and mellberg back in some ways as i think we won every single header at the back, and i would imagine now that we have some height and aerial prowess back in the side ashley young will be getting more assist from set plays again. Boring enough match, Jimmy let me down with 2 awfull misses, but he'll bounce back. Warnock looks lively and Dunne was as good as collins i thought, all in all a comfortable performance, and we look very comfortable at holding onto the ball at the back, should come in handy when trying to hold onto a lead in the future. UTV |
Badger
said:
|
... ak_27, Badger maybe you are right and they aren't as bad as i make out but i made that call on yesterdays game really. What kinda annoyed me yesterday was the fact after 5mins of the 2nd half it was obvious that there was nothing there to be scared off. The game was there to won far earlier then we did it. I believe that MON should have brought Carew on for Sidwell and also Beye on for Cullar very early in that second half instead of being so over cautious and slow. That to me is just more of the same as last season. Very slow at making the tactical changes needed. Yes, I understand you can only go off what you saw yesterday. A few of us discussed changes at HT and the result was a mixed bag. A couple suggested the same as you, a couple said give it the hour and I said don't change it, because I would have taken the point (I just didn't want to lose)  When he did make the change, a couple of thought it was a bit of a gamble. Funny how we all see things differently, isn't it? Whatever, he made the change and it clearly worked and I'm a happy bunny. Guy's proposal is interesting. The thing is we have options now. Don't forget DJ stu will enter the fray too. That, coupled with Delph, means Sidwell needs to find some form pretty sharpish, imo. My understanding is NRC came off because he had a knock, but I could be wrong. I really don't think things are too bad overall mate |
Badger
said:
|
...Can somebody tell me what version the Bluenoses sing? Is it Sol Campbell-esque or something? Same song,your mom's a w****, rhymes with score |
SCOTT1
said:
 |
... rob h i was one of the guys moaning aswell.but as mentioned by badger when u r linked to these top names and u end up eith none its quite fustrating.plu the fact that mon can really make u tear ur hair out,playing players out of postion,not bringing subs on to waste time when we r winning and losing points etc.starting 442 with delph in a high pressure situation against wigan.he doesnt make it easy for us!!!i was actually worried about the new look back 4 as i stated yesterday,i thought beye was a better option with more balance,but hey he proved me wrong.!!LONG MAY IT CONTINUE!!!!! |
holteend paul
said:
|
... if nrc was taken off because he had a knock why did he look a bit suprised and peeved with the decision. |
FatKevs
said:
 |
... I still think Mon is Crap in the transfer market. He had barganing power with Man City but did not use it. We had to wait far to long to get in replacements hence we are out of europe. I still do not see us finishing in the Top 6 this season but we are better at the back than we would of been with CD |
Villa_Chris
said:
|
...if nrc was taken off because he had a knock why did he look a bit suprised and peeved with the decision. .....Because he's a winner, and we weren't winning when he came off! NRC would go into battle with one leg, that's the kind of soldier he is. |
BrooksterMax
said:
 |
... Watched it on Sky with its judder and jerky vision (anyone else noticed this on some HD broadcasts!) Anyway was shocked to see debuts given to 3 defenders but delighted to see a very solid and competent defence. There was one occassion where Dunne was beaten for pace on a wing in the second half, but then he was not brought for his pace! The result was great, the match was poor. |
afvcbob
said:
|
... It was never going to be a great game- the result mattered more that the preformance. Collins and Dunne were quality imo. It was brave decision by MON to put them both in for this match. Sidwell went missing throughout the game and I feel it is time for MON to replace him with Deplh. But well done Villa in putting one over Shite fc again. UTV |
Rob_The_Villain
said:
 |
... Thought we were really good against the scum, it could've and should've been atleast 3. Really pleased with the defence, we looked solid but the main point was that were aggressive. Our last ditch tackling and blocking was amazing from Dunne, Collins and Warnock, something which we have missed since Laursen and Bouma. Overall though the performance was really encouraging as we know we can be much better going forward. Would like to see Delph given a go in Sidwell's position as I'm still unsure of what he actually does! On another note, I missed the game because I had to go see Cardiff v Newcastle (possibly the worst birthday present ever!). We have zero to worry about in the cup, they were shocking. All we have to do is get stuck into Burke (right winger) as he is the ONLY creative player they have. He hates people getting stuck into him so shut him down and you shut them down. Can see us getting atleast 3 against them! |
Badger
said:
|
...his moms a w**k*r? Doesn't make sense that Badger I thought it was a bit low really  |
qashqai
said:
 |
... Really pleased with the result.Derby matches are always scrappy and hard fought.Great debuts for all the new boys,the back 4 have never played together and only met for the 1st time on friday!! My mates are all Hammers fans and they were very pissed when Collins left,they would have preferred to have seen Upson go for silly money.However,they did say that Collins can be injury prone so we need our 4 CBs. Dunne made 24 clearances on his debut and with Collins as my man of the match the pairing seems so much stronger than what we had before. One of the highlights for me was seeing three Villa shirts dive into block Larssons shot early on,that spirit really impressed me.Warnock looks composed at LB and he can also play in a variety of positions. Really pleased for Gabby,thought he led the line and Milner could have had a hat trick with better finishing but he gave 110% and covered every blade of grass.Great to hear Gabby being chanted by the Villa fans after being taunted by the blues Supporters and his goal shut them up. Pleased we have a squad at last with players who are flexible.I know Sidwell gets a lot of stick but he was a great player at Reading and Mourinho took him to Chelsea.Hopefully he will settle like Petrov and we have Delph to bed into the team over the season and will be a great Villa favourite. HAPPY DAYS. |
ronrabbit
said:
 |
... I cant belive people are moaning about the change to 442 being to late, and moaning at O'Neill. Ive done my share of moaning about him on here but yesturday he got it spot on. the change came at the right time, and we got the right result. If we had changed to 442 at half time the clowns would have came out after the break with more energy and may have started to have a go at us. By leaving it 15-20 mins Mon can assess the situation fully see if they have changed tactics at the break and adapt. Then bringing on carew against a tired defence for the last 20 (i know i have lost 5 mins somewhere) he can cause havoc, as he did, we got the goal then defended brillantly and could of had two more on the break. Our tactics were spot on yesturday, and MON deserves the credit. |
Elvis at Left Back
said:
|
...I still think Mon is Crap in the transfer market. He had barganing power with Man City but did not use it. We had to wait far to long to get in replacements hence we are out of europe. as always sopt on with your comments, see fraggle rock does have people living there......Fatkevs for one |
GGGG
said:
 |
... Great to see 4 defenders who'd never played together before keep a clean sheet, and great to see us shaking off last season's horrendous run-in with 3 Prem wins on the trot. I think Cuellar used to play rightback at Rangers, so now we've options right across the back and can finally rest a bit easier when we haven't got the ball. With Downing still to come & Gabby finding his scoring boots again, things are looking solid and MON would be justified in sticking the vees-up to all the booboys. |
greg1982
said:
 |
... The most difficult thing to come to terms with as a life long, decade after decade, Villa supporter is the number of other fans who are ecstatic about mediocrity. The elation on the site, if shared by lots of fans, is the real worry for our progress. Considerations: 1.We were dumped out of Europe before the competition had got going. 2.Team selection against Wigan : A schoolboy and one other player against 5 Wigan midfield players. (I didn’t boo at the game – I never have - but I did laugh out loud when I heard the team we were putting out). 3.MON has no real idea that we need, let alone move for, a creative midfield player. No Sid or Merse. 4.4 games in and possession is still cheap. We’ve had the least possession in all the games so far. Even Fulham had the ball more than us. 5.The team is now better than the one MON took over – just (and a lot spent to achieve this). But it wouldn’t beat the one that played this time last year. 6.Cahill and Melberg would have been fine in central defence with just one other buy and if money is short instead of replacing the defence we could have spent it on a creative midfielder (‘over the top money’ for one player if need be). 7.Top 4? There is now a top 5 and we aren’t in it. We’re hoping for 6th. And only because Arteta is injured. 8.Bluenoses were rubbish and we nearly only got a draw. 9.Formation: all this talk of 451 is mainly necessary because we need 5 midfielders to do job 4 should be doing. We’re simply lacking quality in the middle. 10.Organisation/Admin: Can you believe we’ve just given 3 debuts in a local derby. We all knew we needed a new defence months ago. 11.Pulling one of our wide quality players inside won’t work. And we will have 3 of them soon. 12.Prediction: Ash is now ‘quadrupled’ up on to stop him. He’ll be off to Man U at the end of a season. Then Delph (class) will come through, then he will be off… etc etc etc…. If the team building doesn’t happen in parallel then it won’t work. Well, it will to an extent, but it won’t get us into the top four. If MON had made these improvements last year (thus we still had Barry) then this team would have been nearer the summit. Timing is everything and the jury is still out on whether or not our lovely MON has it. Probably not will be the answer. |
bobvillian
said:
 |
... NOWS THE TIME TO DROP SIDWELL AND BRING IN DELPH BUT ONLY IN 451 FORMATION HE NEEDS PROTECTION BUT HE IS OUR CREATIVE SPARK |
Badger
said:
|
... Greg, 1.Can't argue with that, albeit they got a quick goal. 2. MON has a lot of faith in Delph, but we never turned up. Can't argue the point though, as it's fact. 3.I think he knows exactly what we need and that's why he's bought DJ Stu. We'll have to wait on that one. 4. Fulham had the possession yes. I remember Pool playing with about 85% possession, as I'm sure you remember. What was that like? I don't care about possession, it 's what you do with it. What was the score against Fulham? 5. Why, because we've lost Barry and Laursen? I think the consensus is we haven't missed Barry massively, and as for Laursen, well maybe, but let's give our new defenders a chance. 6.Agreed. MON made a mistake with Cahill, but at the time he wanted to play and he was down the pecking order. 7.It's going to be a funny league this year. I prefer to think that anything is possible. 8. Derbies are meaningless on the whole, always have been, always will be mate. They mean nothing apart from bragging rights. End of the day, 3 points. 9. See point 3 10.Hopefully the defence is now sorted. However you look at it, we now have decent backup compared to a few months ago. 11. Well MON has suggested DJ Stu can play in the middle and he did so for Boro. Again we'll see. 12.So what? If it happens, it happens. You can't do anything about it. Manure couldn't keep hold of Ronaldo, could they? To cheer yourself up do what one of the posters did in a previous thread. Imagine Bloose are the Barcodes and compare our results with last seasons. You'll see the picture is not as bad as you paint it mate |
stevo
said:
 |
... some people are just hard to please ! title or bust is it? greg who would you like at the helm instead of martin ? maybe rafa or carlo eh ! |
ak_27
said:
|
... To be honest the way Young has played over the last 8months and the price tag we would put on him i can't see any top team coming in for him next summer unless his perfomances improve an awful lot. I know this is unfounded but i really think it has all gone to his head a little. But i no longer get as excited when he gets the ball as i used to at the very start of last season. |
greg1982
said:
|
... Badger I always like your optimism. I hope you’re right on all the points. I don’t see it. And I’ve got 80 years of history backing me up. And if the consensus is we haven’t missed Barry then they are wrong. Barry in and a Sid in front of him and you’ve got my attention. And that ‘was’ a possibility last year. |
greg1982
said:
|
... Aka This is a huge problem. Others have said this. He’s by far our best player. What happened is simple: the second we were sussed he was marked heavily and still is. Replay yesterday’s game there were a few occasions when not two but four blue noses were trying to stop him. In a top team defenders can’t afford to do that. Stevo Top 4 I was hoping for. Everyone keeps talking progress. Have the goalposts moved? I don’t know who to bring in. We’re very insular at VP. Although safe to say ‘arry would have done better with the money and not wasted so much. |
SidCowanslovechild
said:
 |
... Have just read Greg's post. Does anyone know the lethal dose for parecetomol? |
odysseynumberfive
said:
|
... I think Ash has been sussed for now, but when Downing is fit he'll replace Young on the left and Ash will move inside, probably at the expense of Sidwell or Reo-Coker. Then the midfield will comprise of Downing, Young, Delph, Petrov, Milner. Sweet. It's got everything. Two decent wingers, a holding midfielder, a creative midfielder, and a midfielder who can take people on and score a few goals. Barry who? |
greg1982
said:
|
... SidCowans... PS and if you are related to Sid Cowans Pleeeeaase take your boots to the next game. It’s what we are desperate for. |
SidCowanslovechild
said:
|
... What I am not getting with Ash being triple marked is surely that is a good thing and means massive amounts of space created for rest of attacking options? Surely the rest of our midfield and attack aren't that useless going forward? Said it before and no doubt will again, the great news is we now have a full squad and very good youth back up so we should no longer need squad fillers. Logically our next signings should be very few but very high quality (otherwise what is the point?). Now, agreed that this could mean no players coming in because we can't attaract the highest quality of player but I would still prefer this to more squad fillers and a Schneider or VDV would make an unbelievable difference to the team if handled properly. That's the next stage in our evolution, hopefully with the likes of Albrighton, Delph, Fonzi and Clatk coming through also. We will see |
SidCowanslovechild
said:
|
... For me Greg, wouldn't need them if there wasn't some truth in what you say although I take a more positive view of things. Only related to the great man on the spiritual sense, my football skills align more with Salifou and Osbourne than Sid Cowans |
greg1982
said:
|
... There you were Sid getting my hopes up. Not even Alex Cropley? He’d do. The words that should be banned from VP, and are the death of us, is ‘squad players’. It’s lack quality that did for us in our relegation form for the last 3 months of last season. Not tiredness. No team with top four aspirations should ever think of buying a ‘squad player’. |
Badger
said:
|
...What I am not getting with Ash being triple marked is surely that is a good thing and means massive amounts of space created for rest of attacking options? Surely the rest of our midfield and attack aren't that useless going forward? I've touched on this before. We simply don't take advantage of this space and opponents must see it, else they wouldn't triple or quadruple mark him. That's two or even three players pulled out of position!!! So that suggests to me our midfield is not good enough in going forward, because there's something not quite right with the system or the players we have are not good enough. I think this is why everyone can see the need for a creative central attacking midfielder. Now I know Delph has a nice turn of pace, not sure about Downing, but either way one of these two will be the final piece in the jigsaw, imo. If we have a player who can get up and down the middle at similar pace to our wingers and switch play with a decent pass to the wing or be there to receive it from the wing and most importantly do something with it, we'll be sorted, as we'll seriously stretch defences. Question. How many goals did our midfield score last season? I bet it wasn't many. Mind you, I remember saying that goals wasn't our problem, the defence was. On reflection, maybe I'm taking bollox  |
ak_27
said:
|
... Badger and Sid maybe its up to Ash to just get rid of the ball quicker if he is being marked so heavily(take the wigan game for eg)? He always seems to want to take a touch when maybe he would be better off just making a first touch pass. Like i said i just get the impression that it has gone to his head a little to be honest. |
kohoutek
said:
 |
... Yes, the thing with Ash being so heavily marked is that he's got to learn to lay the ball off to the players moving into the space he's created. He hasn't adapted yet to the fact teams are looking to mark him out of the game. When he does, they'll have to back off him again. |
Badger
said:
|
... greg, No team with top four aspirations should ever think of buying a ‘squad player’. Not sure I agree with that, although I know what you're getting at. Pool's squad isn't brilliant, nor is Arsenal's, imo. I do agree though that it's all about quality back up. We now have this in most areas and as Sid said, if Mr Lerner continues to invest (and I think he will) we'll only be looking at better quality. Hey I'm really positive today and I'll even go so far as to say I can taste it, we're that close Have a link to cheer you up a bit more mate; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8211531.stm |
ak_27
said:
|
... Im really hopeful that Warnock over lapping him will help with this also. They linked up nicely a few times yesterday. Really looking forward to seeing more of that in the more open spaces of VP. |
Jimbo Daventry Villa
said:
|
... pprid, I struggle to find a Mail in Daventry.. Some shops sell them but they sell out quickly. I bought the post but its crap. Did the Mail say anything about any trouble outside the ground? |
Dema
said:
 |
... I can't believe Cuellar wasn't voted higher, he was immense and playing out of position. I thought he did more than the new lads too. I was very happy with all 4 nontheless. Shame about Milner ... |
Badger
said:
|
... I agree about Cuellar, thought he was very assured. His passing up the wing was a bit iffy perhaps, but overall pretty good, imo. As for Milner, he doesn't have many off days, so I'll forgive him that one. |
r0bb0
said:
 |
... Wow...there are some miserable bastards supporters aren't there. Makes you wonder what would make them happy. |
r0bb0
said:
|
... Badger yes that'll be part of it, but I bet they're the same people who boo and whinge at Villa park instead of trying to make a positive difference by singing and supporting. They'll say they're just being realistic....no...they're just being miserable negative bastards who do nothing positive for the club. |
r0bb0
said:
|
... errr...wonder if i've overstated it a bit.... actually, no I don't think I have. The atmosphere at Villa park should be far better than it is and I reckon it is at least in part down to these relentless gloom mongers. |
Badger
said:
|
... I'm always doing it mate, because I just hit "refresh" all the time. It usually takes me about an hour to realise  |
runner29
said:
 |
... poor game but i am happy to take a win anyway witch way it comes, good games from the new singings but lets not get ahead of are selfs, Dunne was good so was Collins but not too sure about Wornock is worth 8 million though |
bobvillian
said:
|
... is there any scum supporters who know anythink about football i dont think so?Cant they see that there team had more of the play but how many chances did they create answer zero.they tell us there mish mash of a team outplayed our 100million team.granted villa played average but we still could have scored 5times 3 from milner 1from gabby and 1 from sidwell. call me stupid but this sounds like sour grapes. theres only 1 team in brum who can call themselfs footballers and they play in claret and blue |
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