You know what? I've seen us presented with the chance to take third or fourth place over and over again this season. And more or less every time we've flunked it.

Now why is that? Martin O'Neill is in the FA dock for his behaviour towards Mike Riley on Sunday - and to an extent I understand his frustration - but the Liverpool-Chelsea game the other night, I think, put a few things in perspective.

Don't get me wrong: I think Villa were the better side at Old Trafford and I and Damian both had to swallow some pride at the success of his rejuvenated 4-4-2 (interestingly without Heskey). I guess it took some "balls" to stick with 4-4-2 after the debacle at Anfield, at least.

But my reason for this post comes from watching Chelsea at Anfield Wednesday night. I'm not a great fan of the Blues, far from it - but I was in awe of the "cojones" they showed against a Liverpool side rampant on the back of recent results and with a very early goal in the bag.

There are some echoes: United scored early against Villa, and Villa then came back with real fight, pace and skill to dominate the game for an hour. Like Chelsea, we went 2-1 up, putting the favourites' star players in the shade And like the game last night, that lead was wholly deserved.

But at that point the comparisons finish.

You see, Chelsea went for the jugular. Knowing they were on top, Hiddink sent the side forward looking for a third goal. They were aggressive, tough and determined. All the big players - Terry, Cole, Essien and Lampard continued to win the big one-on-one battles and kept forcing the play forward. It was a matter of time before the third goal came, as Liverpool were rocking under the sustained pressure of a team with the balls to see the job through.

And then the best bit. The substitution.

Hiddink threw on Nicholas Anelka. You cannot imagine a more aggressive substitution. A replacement that says "we want four".

Now back to Villa. We took off James Milner and threw in Nigel Reo-Coker, presumably to "shore things up". Then we sat back and defended.

The rest is history, isn't it?

I am no statistician, but I have a feeling that there is a long line of coaches who have tried to defend one-goal leads against United by getting behind the ball. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. United have the quality to poach goals from anywhere.

If Villa had some balls, O'Neill would have looked at the game half way through the second period and gone for a third. Game over. And what's more, had we remained positive, the dying stages of the game might just have been played in United's half.

Chelsea did it at Anfield - because they played with real, real balls.

We flunked it at Old Trafford because we didn't believe we could hammer them.

God, I wish we'd hammered them as we should have done.

So do we have the balls to challenge the big four or not? Cue a poll from Damian.

Comments (98)

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tony dunn said:

... We were always going to be better against Man Utd with a 4-4-2 as this simply matches up to their pattern. However, against Chelski and Liverplop you have to play a 4-5-1, to combat their extra midfielder, or have an intelligent forward who can drop into midfield when they are in possession, as Luke Moore did against Makalele when we beat Chelski 2-0 last season.

Comment 1, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.01 am

jacetheace said:

... at the moment no i don't think we have the balls,i think it is all a bit of a learning curve,i just hope we learn quickly

Comment 2, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.02 am

Eamonn said:

... Decent post but not fair. MON did make a mistake and that was not taking off a striker and reverting back to 4-5-1 with an extra midfielder. Villa had a few breaks after they went 2-1 up so did try for the 3rd but when it didn't come MON left 2 strikers on which invited man U onto us which definitely doesn't work. Right idea bad execution.

Comment 3, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.05 am

Chris Harper said:

... Brilliant post Doc. I absolutely agree.... the first thing I said to my mate in the pub when we went 2-1 up was- 'I hope we don't just sit back now, we should go for another and keep attacking in the same manor. As you say, the rest is history! We need to just play our natural game....fast, attacking style. Off subject- Anyone else sick to death of Sorensen whining on and on about O'Neill? I would love to give him a slap!

Comment 4, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.13 am

Robbie Wells said:

... Well, an interesting post, one that I can't quite agree with entirely. Sure, we were always on top of United, and we should never have let off and defended, because it was the only way they could have gained confidence. But, i would contest that we could and possibly would have scored another two goals if the linesman wasn't trained by Stevie Wonder, because i recall Gabby and Ashley going through on goal on separate occasions only to be flagged offside. That's where we lost that game. The goals they scored couldn't really have been defended better.

Comment 5, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.28 am

Leroy said:

... Great post. Raises an interesting point....but doesnt that once again come back to player personnel? We have a young relatively inexperienced side who have not played in many big matches. Another massive thing is that when our 11 bust their guts and get the lead, who can we rely on to come in off the bench and do a job? No one.....If we didnt know from last year we certainly do now...the premier league is a long season, throw in a couple of cups and you soon race towards 50 games for a season. This work load doesnt allow our players and in turn the club to "go for the jugular" against the "best team in the world" Man U, as the players that have been out there for 60-70 mins giving it their all are fucked, but have to stay on because there is no one who is going to do a job for us off the bench. Petrov was a warrior for us last week and he was run ragged, but if you take him off who do you put in for him.....Salifou? Aston Villa have the guts and dare i say it the balls, but as i have said over and over, we need players of quality and a decent bench.....it is soon approaching year 4 of MONs reign and we still dont have a fucking bench.......WHY? I think MON should grow a pair and buy a couple of Spanish/South Americans, thats the only balls our team needs IMO

Comment 6, made on April 10, 2009 at 11.05 am

Chris Harper said:

... Well said Leroy, think you've hit the nail on the head there mate!

Comment 7, made on April 10, 2009 at 12.28 pm

James said:

... I still don't agree with this thing about sitting back. United were always going to push us back. As someone else said it was not soaking up pressure that caused the gaols. They were just class. He'd have taking stick in the other two possible scenarios. Let's say he left the team on and Milner lost possession trying to counter. Blame. Let's say he brought on the Fonz for Carew or Gabby. Blame. I think we Villa fans are the ones who need bigger balls. We do blame real good don't we?

Comment 8, made on April 10, 2009 at 12.49 pm

Michael said:

... its easy to have balls when your team has spent £500million on players in 6 years. (chelsea)

Comment 9, made on April 10, 2009 at 1.00 pm

Ed said:

... I think our dismal record against united was enough to make us capitulate regardless of what substitutions were made - as soon as we were in the lead I knew it would be all united attack from then on, and I think nerves definitely kicked in for the players as they would all have been thinking about how good an opportunity it was to finally beat united and to end our winless run in the league. Robbie - I agree with you though, I can't believe the offside decisions that were given, it was an absolute farce. Who knows, if the officials did there jobs properly it could have ended 4-3 to us.

Comment 10, made on April 10, 2009 at 1.05 pm

celtic_villain said:

... simple. we are not the team chelsea are. the key to there poor season to now was a manager who couldnt motivate them, no essien, and no motivated drogba. we are not good enough to do that to utd. i agree in some cases we should close out matches, really against 14 or 15 other tems in the league to be honest, but if we allow the game to strech we would have got punished. as it is we were a little unlucky to lose - hence mon's sentiments. u said we kept their stars quiet. ronaldo scored twice. and they were missing most of the others we arent capable yet of closing out the best team in the world, even if they are out of sorts. perhaps with a great summer we may be next season

Comment 11, made on April 10, 2009 at 1.39 pm | url

ak_27 said:

... Spot on Leroy. But another reason why Chelsea had the balls and we didn't was when the Chelsea mid bombed on to get the third they knew they had the likes of Terry and Cole and Alex behind that were capable of covering them. We have Davies and Cullar and i just don't think our mid have the same faith in them.

Comment 12, made on April 10, 2009 at 2.06 pm

Woz said:

... http://www.birminghammail.net/...9-23359090 Muppet Howell does it again!.... Villa have won just five games againt Manchester City, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Bolton and West Brom at Villa Park out of the 15 league games played on their own turf. Does that mean we get the extra 3 points, because I thought we lost to Middlesbrough 1 - 2. If he cant even get the basics right.....

Comment 13, made on April 10, 2009 at 2.20 pm

steve tongue said:

... have the villa team got the balls? maybe has martin o'neill got the balls? no!

Comment 14, made on April 10, 2009 at 2.35 pm

Paul Gough said:

... Good post, points well made. I believe teams that go for the extra goal to seal a victory win out a lot more than teams that try to hold a lead. Its all about confidence. I hope that MON instills the necessary confidence against Everton. Winning that game by 2 or 3 goals would give us a great chance of catching Arsenal.

Comment 15, made on April 10, 2009 at 2.51 pm

Mike F said:

... We need an Anelka- Good post.

Comment 16, made on April 10, 2009 at 2.55 pm

r0bb0 said:

... Without the dodgy offides against Man U we may well have scored the third goal and all could have been different. We wouldn't now have a flock of 'experts' pontificating on where it all went wrong and what mistakes MON made. This continual need to asign blame is insidious and saps the confidence of both players and fans. Yesterday MON said that he would "review his position as manager" if he felt that the team wasn't progressing. It's the constant criticism of fair weather fans that has led him to make such a comment. With everything he's done for the club he shouldn't even be having to consider such things. So to everyone who thinks they have all the answers, whether it's that Shorey was useless (but now is ok), or the 'fact' that 451 is the answer to everything why not just back off for a bit, recognise that he probably knows better than any one of us does and get right back behind the team when they most need our support.

Comment 17, made on April 10, 2009 at 3.22 pm

adam said:

... i think there would be a crisis if MON left. hes made some mistakes along the way but the teams progress and development has been fantastic since he arrived. OH AND WHO WOULD REPLACE HIM

Comment 18, made on April 10, 2009 at 3.49 pm

Ken Bonker said:

... I think MON has become a victim of all the hype he gets, not only from the media, but from Villa supporters. He's an experienced manager, but is definitely not perfect, no manager is, he is prone to make mistakes, and after being our manager for 3 years, we've not yet had any success in league or cup, not to mention the Uefa cup mess earlier this season, surely the action of a very naive manager? Unless he changes his transfer policy, we are destined for the same in the future, I don't think it's a matter of having the balls or not, it's more a matter of making the right decisions at the right time.

Comment 19, made on April 10, 2009 at 4.07 pm

peter haworth said:

... Excellent post.I believe our problem lies in the strength of the squad.When we went 1-2 up against United Milner was taken off,NRC came on and we sat back and encouraged United to go for the win.If only we had quality on the bench it might have given MON diffent options.One important lesson we have learnt this season is that to be a sucess in the premier league,Europe and the other domestic cups you have to have a quality squad which takes time to build,look how long it has taken for Petrov to come to terms with the premier league.Hopefully, MON and Randy Lerner relise this and build and spend in the summer for a very tough,long hard season starting in August.I think we have players who do have the balls,but you need quality players to come on the pitch in the 65th minute and help change the game. If we had suffered injuries to 4/5 of our 1st team squad this season we would be in relegation difficulties.

Comment 20, made on April 10, 2009 at 4.24 pm

r0bb0 said:

... Kentucky, of course MON isn't perfect...no manager is but he IS an excellent manager, we HAVE progressed hugely under his leadership and to criticise him for winning nothing in just his first 3 seasons with us frankly ridiculous. We ARE a big team, but we are not one of the biggest. We have no automatic right to win anything at all and it's time that some Villa fans got real, appreciated where we've come from and stopped their self indulgent whining.

Comment 21, made on April 10, 2009 at 4.33 pm

Leroy said:

... AK 27 - Thats true mate and again i would go back to the experience point i made. Terry and Cole etc have played in some massive matches in europe, probably starting in eufa cup when they were younger....but we dont take the eufa cup seriously. Instead of letting the lads get some more experience against some hardened footballers, many of whom have played on an international level, we throw out a second string side basically forfeiting the comp. We need to start acting like a big club for the whole year not just at the start when legs are fresh and things are going our way with easy schedules etc. Nan - I understand what you are saying about the blame game, but who is to blame for not having bench after 3 plus years? That is the biggest single thing that is killing us at the moment. Why doesnt MON realise his job is easier when he has one or two options to pick from?

Comment 22, made on April 10, 2009 at 4.42 pm

mike said:

... De Gough, get real we will not beat Everton by 2 or 3 goals, also i do wish the like of Petrov, cruller and others would stop bigging themselfs up in the press, it's embarrassing espcially when we have not won in 9 matches.

Comment 23, made on April 10, 2009 at 4.46 pm | url

r0bb0 said:

... Leroy, you're right, our bench is still not strong enough, but it is stronger than it was three years ago. Our squad was really weak 3 years ago and we've been strengthened in every area. For sure we need to see more real progression this year so that we can look forward to real quality players coming on to change a game with 20 minutes to go.

Comment 24, made on April 10, 2009 at 4.51 pm

kieron said:

... Looks like Gabby and Carlos out for Everton game according to villa site. But Sidwell back from ankle injury, so could well be five in midfield after all!!

Comment 25, made on April 10, 2009 at 5.01 pm

James said:

... Leroy We all know the bench is not strong enough. My point has always been that it is not strong enough because our club is UNABLE to sign good players to sit on the bench. We have the bench we deserve at the moment. The trick which MON is desperately try to pull off is; get into the Top 4 by the skin of your teeth, then spend big, when the players will come, in the hope of staying there. Until we came along Everton had done the best job of Stage 1. Their plight is more sad than ours though, because when they did break Top 4 or if they do again, there is NO money there. We have the money if we can get in. THEY WILL NOT COME AND SIT ON THE BENCH UNTIL WE MAKE TOP 4. Therefore anyone who demands a better squad MUST support MON's prioritisation of the Top 4 league placement.

Comment 26, made on April 10, 2009 at 5.06 pm

Martin Clabon said:

... I hate to say this but we are a weak set of fans and if anyone is bottling it it is us. If we hound out MON we will get what we deserve, slipping back to lower mid table if we are lucky and fans of other clubs will say "what a dumb bunch of bastards, thought they were bigger than they are, had a good thing and pissed it away" And, in my opinion they'll be right. The only manager that we could possibly get who might be as good as MON is Martin Johl - which reminds me of another bunch of dumb bastards who ddn't know they were well off and ended up bottom of the league. I've been to a lot of away grounds and worked and travelled etc with a lot of fans of other clubs and there are not many who are more whiney as us. Those Arsenal fans saying we were delusional weren't far off. Also, we haven't been far off 4 or 5 first teamers out most of the season with Bouma, Laurson, Carew and Cuellar out more than available and others off at times as well. I'd love to know who these world class players are who are desperate to come and sit on our bench. I'm far from saying MON is perfect it's just that there are not many world class managers desperate to come to Villa either On the plus side saw a very positive post from taglor recently but not sure if he was taking the piss!

Comment 27, made on April 10, 2009 at 7.24 pm

James said:

... Sid I think you and I could sit down with a few beers and set the world to rights.

Comment 28, made on April 10, 2009 at 7.38 pm

Martin Clabon said:

... Sounds good Nan. I hope I'm not a blind sheep but we've come a long way and don't want us to give it away. We need to be part of the solution not the problem, 12th man and all that. Cliches maybe but we can choose to be constructive or destructive and choosing the first doesn't make you an idiot. I understand some of the criticism but be careful what you wish for. MON is not a bottler

Comment 29, made on April 10, 2009 at 7.43 pm

James said:

... MON will be the next GREAT manager. BUT will it be for us? I have scary premonitions that give me a hollow, sick sensation in the pit of my stomach. MON strolling round Old Trafford with a retained League and European Cup double. His genius acclaimed by all. Doubts erased.

Comment 30, made on April 10, 2009 at 9.32 pm

James said:

... Then there are my dreams. 10 years from now....Villa the undisputed champions of England and Europe. Title after title. A team with a British backbone. A structure to our club envied by all. Slowly, slowly. Patience and faith.

Comment 31, made on April 10, 2009 at 9.34 pm

stan said:

... everton have got big balls

Comment 32, made on April 10, 2009 at 9.48 pm | url

Paul Egan said:

... The only manager that we could possibly get who might be as good as MON is Martin Johl - which reminds me of another bunch of dumb bastards who ddn't know they were well off and ended up bottom of the league. You've hit the nail on the head, SidCowanslovechild, which brings me onto the next thing I was going to say... I have scary premonitions that give me a hollow, sick sensation in the pit of my stomach. MON strolling round Old Trafford with a retained League and European Cup double. MON is a great manager. All managers make mistakes. We are bloody lucky to have him. Old Trafford will come knocking and he'll have a decision to make. Let's not make it an easy offer to take up. He's on a rolling contract and could say bollocks to us at any time and quit. WE NEED MON! LET'S GIVE HIM THE KIND OF CONFIDENCE VOTE HE WOULD GIVE OUR PLAYERS.

Comment 33, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.05 pm

James said:

... Paul E Absolutely. He needs to hear his name ringing round Villa Park at the end of this season wherever we finish.

Comment 34, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.20 pm

Martin Clabon said:

... Nan and Paul E - faith well and truly restored. Thanks

Comment 35, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.30 pm

James said:

... Sid, I'm sure the vultures shall return. They'll be hovering over Villa Park on Sunday, no doubt.

Comment 36, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.34 pm

stan said:

... the blue boys will be hovering around villa park on sunday 3000 of us.you villa fans get ready for the arrival of moyesys blue and white army.AND IF YOU KNOW YOUR HISTORY ITS ENOUGH TO MAKE YOUR HEART GO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WE DONT CARE WHAT THE RED SHITE SAY WHAT THE FUCK DO WE CARE BECAUSE WE ONLY KNOW THAT THERES GONNA BE A SHOW WHEN THE EVERTON BOYS ARE THERE.EVERTON WHATS OUR NAME EVERTON WHATS OUR NAME EVERTON.

Comment 37, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.53 pm | url

Fitzy_7 said:

... ^^^ wow one word pathetic

Comment 38, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.55 pm

stan said:

... well in fitzy lad

Comment 39, made on April 10, 2009 at 10.57 pm | url

James said:

... Yep, there was certainly a show at Goodison last time Stan. We enjoyed it immensely.

Comment 40, made on April 10, 2009 at 11.42 pm

stan said:

... are you talking about the 3-1 when we knocked you out of the cup yeah that was a show i enjoyed it immensely

Comment 41, made on April 10, 2009 at 11.47 pm | url

Fitzy_7 said:

... stan my dad is bigger than your dad

Comment 42, made on April 10, 2009 at 11.48 pm

stan said:

... well in fitzy lad what time you due on stage your hilarious you

Comment 43, made on April 10, 2009 at 11.53 pm | url

James said:

... you are - you're

Comment 44, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.06 am

stan said:

... didnt quite get that nan was a fan

Comment 45, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.08 am | url

stan said:

... no reply from nan was a fan or fitzy i think thats 1-0 to the blues already

Comment 46, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.15 am | url

James said:

... This is the only problem with school holidays. They forget everything they've been taught. C-

Comment 47, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.32 am

stan said:

... i know usually you would be in bed now wouldnt you tossin off over your gabby agbonlahors bottom lip

Comment 48, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.35 am | url

Nick said:

... This might help him nan http://youryoure.com/ Anyway I still dont think we sat back after we took the lead. There were times were manunited were going to pressure us, they are the champions of europe after all. But we never sat back in a shell and got everyone behind the ball. The game got really stretched after we took the lead. And like I said before - even a minute before their winning goal- we had players forward attacking. I watched the game a second time, and all of this was pretty apparent. We never sat back, my problem was (Like Doc spoke about) that we did not try hard enough for that 3rd and killer goal. The 3points were there for the taking, but maybe we are not experienced enough yet. Because put another top 4 side in our place (liverpool at united for example) and they land that killer blow.

Comment 49, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.41 am

stan said:

... well in nicky lad that was class that well done lad.cant beat a bit of friends like its my favourite show.

Comment 50, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.59 am | url

Woodinho said:

... Hi doc, very very well written article, I like the thought behind it, but I'm not sure if I agree 100%... you see I can't decide if we sat back or were pressed back, I know the milner substitution was a turning point but I really think we'd have been penned in anyway as teams usually are at old trafford, it's a tough one to call, although the way Chelsea played the other day - I mean by not giving Liverpool time to build - would have been nice to see from us at old trafford, but have we got the players in reserve to do that? Not really, we don't have that extra punch from the bench to kill a team when we are on top! And what does that boil down to - transfers!!!!!! I actually hate Mon when it comes to transfers, he irritates the fuck out of me! You see the way I see it, a lot if the bigger teams get a pyscological boost over everyone else b4 a ball has been kicked, the reason being they have such strength in depth that they look at us and must think "well, they'll tire out, then who are they going to bring on" bloody no one is who, then we look at bigger - and some smaller teams benches - and crap it. What I'm trying to say is the real place we need to show some balls is in the transfer Market!!! Then we'd be the ones scaring people b4 kick off!

Comment 51, made on April 11, 2009 at 1.23 am

Fitzy_7 said:

... stan dont you have homework to be doing. go draw a picture good boy

Comment 52, made on April 11, 2009 at 1.24 am

Fitzy_7 said:

... well in stan lad lol asshole

Comment 53, made on April 11, 2009 at 1.25 am

Leroy said:

... Nan, Dont misconstrue what i mean with my comments mate, i am all for MON. But if i see something i disagree with i will say it. If you believe in making the top 4 (like the rest of us) then come January when we were third and in with a big shout for the first time in a decade of breaking in, why in gods name wouldnt you invest in some back up? We dont have to spend millions, loans can be arranged, especially if players are injured and return dates are upcoming. This is my gripe Nan. WHen you say that we have to support everything that MON does, you are sort of right. But this has been a big mistake and we have let a golden opportunity slip through our hands. I hope to hell that we can pull it out of the fire and i take no joy in saying any of this... Stan, complete and utter bellend. Poor representative of Everton fans

Comment 54, made on April 11, 2009 at 1.38 am

James said:

... But Leroy Who was available, that we missed out on, in January? You really believe that there were some BIGboy players available and MON said, "Nope, I want Heskey, fuck quality." Yes, we could have added to our mediocre bench with Harewood clones; or got in some shitspreadin malcontent but hey, would that make us happy? Top 4 or they will not come. MON will make it happen if we let him. I'm realising the power of us fans. WE are the only thing standing between MON and the Holy Grail. YOU can get rid of him. Call for better. I wash my hands of this.

Comment 55, made on April 11, 2009 at 1.56 am

r0bb0 said:

... Nan, was the hand washing comment a Pontius Pilate allusion for Easter? Isn't it better to stay in there shouting that you still believe in MON rather than letting the short sighted, whinger brigade hound him out of the club though?

Comment 56, made on April 11, 2009 at 10.27 am

Damian said:

... Nanwasafan It's a bit easy to ask that question, about 'who was available', simply because none of us know the answer. I know this; we are been lied to by someone. Okay maybe that is bit harsh - but we are getting led down the PR path and all we're getting is words. We are getting treated like idiots. Is Martin O'Neill so stupid to think that if he didn't spend any money in January that he'd be able to make it? Sure there was always a chance - but all he had to do was look at the season before to know that the chances were slim - our failure to properly strengthen the squad the previous season, some would say, was why we finished 6th and not 5th (or maybe even higher). he's done it again this time; not spent any money and there is a position that it could have cost us top four this season, even third. Just like nobody knows who we missed out on in January, nobody knows that we wouldn't have finished third if we'd spent £20mn. If anyone anywhere tries to say that it wasn't the club that built expectations I'll laugh - it was the club and General Krulak who did it and it's always around the time they want us to spend money. The club have done it and they've done it to generate revenue - you can't blame them. But Krulak is simply a puppet and he's doing what he's paid to do and that is to push the big American PR machine down our throats. So, the likely reason we only signed Heskey in the summer; well, when we don't know for sure and nobody is explaining it to us, what is the most likely reason. For me, it's that we didn't have any money, it is certainly the most reasonable excuse. My point is, Lerner isn't that worried about giving Martin O'Neill money that isn't his, i.e. the £30mn. from TV companies last summer, but he's not putting in any of his own. Don't get me wrong, I quite like the slowly slowly approach but what it has done is only go to serve those that think there is no money and also fuel the fire of doubt. If we finish 6th this season then surely it's fair to say that you need to spend £40mn. a summer to 'just stand still' in the Premier League. If we finish 5th, then it's £40mn. to move one place - so then it will be fair to assume that you're going to need to spend just a little bit more to get into the top four, because surely it's fair to assume that it gets harder the higher you go. Sorry, I've gone on, but your question of 'Who was available, that we missed out on, in January?' and those like that , wind me up, because we don't actually know and some might even say that if money was available, you could name your player.

Comment 57, made on April 11, 2009 at 10.41 am

Damian said:

... r0bb0 Lastly for now, I don't think anyone would be hounding out Martin O'Neill or that anyone could suggest that, if we all knew the truth - in so much that he only had enough for Heskey in January and last year he spent over budget and this summer all he has is what he gets for Barry plus £10mn. which is why he is so worried about losing Barry ... My point is, we've been led to believe we are a club with "significant funds" about to sign "world class signings" and actually, after nearly three season, none of that appears to be true and to top it all off we're likely to see it from Manchester City this summer So, Martin O'Neill isn't spending all this money that is apparently available to him - maybe, some believe that the money is available to him and that Randy Lerner is expecting world class players, so maybe, some are thinking that if O'Neill doesn't want to buy these world class players and want's to do it only with players that would be considered 'fringe' to prove a point to someone, then maybe, we should get someone else in to spend all this money we have on world class signings. Who had honestly heard of Wenger or Benetiz before they came to England - okay some would - but the vast majority wouldn't have. I'm playing devils advocate today.

Comment 58, made on April 11, 2009 at 10.47 am

Leroy said:

... Nan, also following on from what Damian added, i believe its easy to say "Who did we miss out on?", but just as easy to say "Who were we in for?". I agree totally with the notion of us being led down the path by Krulak and the American PR machine. I think the most interesting point Damian makes is spending each season to stand still. It is becoming more and more obvious that around 40mil is the minimum cash requirement needed to help a football club "stand still". Admittedly, Spurs will always spend and who knows what or where they end up each year....flip a coin. Portsmouth cut back now they are in a relegation scrap. I think that MON, because he is such a great individual motivator, has been able to hide behind his skills and this situation to some extent. It was a win win situation really. We finished 16th the year before he came. In the first year he showed how good he is (and how bad OLeary was) by taking basically the same team and improving 6 places. Ofcourse we know the story up until now, but the truth is MON is one of the few true motivating managers around. It has been said numerous times on here about how he doesnt use subs, or he uses the wrong tactics....lets face it, i think the mans brilliant but he is no tactician. Randy loves this as it means MON can get the most out of players which equates to big money saving in the transfer markets. How many times have we heard the line "we will strengthen if we find the right player"? The right player is always available they just cost more. I mean he wanted Milner and he was able to get him, for about double what he is worth. There is no money and its a shame, because if you are to believe what the club is telling us,then it would seem that it is MONs fault for not bringing in players,because they have been bandying around "lies" like damian has mentioned. "We are in a position to bring in a 30mil rated player" for one.....ok, perhaps we are, but it would be the only player we would add that window.

Comment 59, made on April 11, 2009 at 11.21 am

Damian said:

... A quick disclaimer .. I'm happy with what Martin O'Neill is doing and I do think he is the right man for the job, but if this season has shown us anything, it's that getting into the top four is extremely hard - staying there will be harder. A man can only take us so far, he then needs the funds. This summer, regardless of where we now finish, he needs the money to spend and if he is the one not spending it, he needs to be told to spend it, if we are to really have aspirations of finishing regularly in the top four and really kicking on.

Comment 60, made on April 11, 2009 at 11.53 am

Leroy said:

... Amen to that

Comment 61, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.13 pm

James said:

... But both of you still assume that quality players would come to Aston Villa without the offer of CL football. This is the bit I disagree with, especially if you are looking for a player to improve your bench. Man City wanted players in January didn't they? Now the money thing is a question, like my 'who was available?', that we just do not know the answer to. The difference, from what I can gather, between my feelings aand yours is that if we finish 5th/6th this season and only get some more Heskey/Shorey I will be happy. Whereas if we finish 4th this season and do not spend BIG and get BIG players THEN, and only then, will I know we have been shafted. Having said all this I'm delighted that this is the most clear debate I've seen about this issue for a while. Bloody hell and the window's not even open. (Oh yeah Robbo, it was Pontious Pilate. I was a little piisssssed.)

Comment 62, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.34 pm

Leroy said:

... I will again agree with you there Nan. I totally understand where you are coming from. Perhaps i am harboring some ill feeling a little early, as we have a handful of games remaining and there is still a good chance we could do it. MON is the best thing that has happened for us in many a year, but i think the point is he needs the backing financially to further cement the fine work he has started. If the money is not available then just say it....we are not going to change who we support, we deserve to be told the truth in this matter. It is obvious that if we were to crack the top 4 money would be available to bolster the team, but the question is what do we do in the mean time? I dont agree with the one season quick fix, see Portsmouth. But certainly this needs to be analyzed if we dont make it this season. Do we take a couple on loan for the push home? I think a decent loan or two would have just about got us there...

Comment 63, made on April 11, 2009 at 12.59 pm

Damian said:

... Nanwasafan It is much easier for me to believe that you can get a player if you have the money than it is for me to believe the players won´t come without CL football. It´s a bit like the people that said nobody would come without Europe, those same are saying they won´t come without CL football. What will it be when we finish in the top four; they won´t come until we qualify or worse still, they won´t come until we are regularly competing? There are players throughout Europe, playing in the CL on a regular basis that would come to our club, if the money was offered. The thing is, it is a fine line and a gamble. If you want to play in the CL you´ve got to spend the money, but by spending the money it doesn´t guarantee you CL football, only a much better chance of getting it, because you have better players. If anything, we have to spend on much better players for our first team and not be thinking about squad players. The players that we have and can keep hold of should be considered players for the bench, but overall, you´ve got to hope for players that will strengthen the best starting 11. If we do finish 5th/6th as you say and we get more of the same, then the best we can really hope for is, more of the same. My view is, based on what club representatives have said, that if we are going to challenge for the top four, then we need to be spending serous wedge on serious players to make the serious step up.

Comment 64, made on April 11, 2009 at 1.34 pm

James said:

... I think it is true that certain players would not have come to us without Europe. (Milner and Sidwell for example) When we make Top 4, we will attract a new breed. I think, even then, for several years, the really big names will choose to clamour for first team football at Europe's biggest clubs rather than 'gamble' with Aston Villa. However I certainly agree that when we start to buy (assuming 4th)it is a 1st team that we'll be buying and our current squad with one or two exceptions (Laursen if fit, Barry and Young) will become our bench (if they are willing to stay with us) Like Leroy, I think loans are a good option. Also, as you both suggest, what we really need is honesty. MON/Randy should say either we can't sign players, we've tried but they will not come or we are not spending any money until we reach Top 4.

Comment 65, made on April 11, 2009 at 2.08 pm

James said:

... Is there some sort of poll we could do here Damian. Why did we not sign more quality players in Summer/January? a/ No money b/ Players not available c/ Players would not come to Villa d/ MON only willing to work with certain type of player e/ No scounting network to find them f/ MON is stubborn/pig-headed etc

Comment 66, made on April 11, 2009 at 2.12 pm

Doc said:

... Can I just say how refreshing it is to see some decent, passionate debate about Aston Villa Football Club on the blog again. Instead of the tiresome, juvenile tosh which formed most of the threads over at Olly Ulay.

Comment 67, made on April 11, 2009 at 3.46 pm

daniel wheeler said:

... santa cruz went to blackburn, berbatov went to spurs. both very good players,both went to teams not playing CL foot ball. villa are on the up and should be trying to attract players of this sort of quality. you can get them if you are prepared to pay. we can't wait until we make top 4 to get better players than we currently have. we need them to make the top 4. UTV

Comment 68, made on April 11, 2009 at 4.00 pm

James said:

... Yep, they went but Berbatov seems to have moved somewhere else and Santa Cruz hasn't proved himself and would be off somewhere bigger at the drop of a hat. Do you want a money grabbing superstar for a season or two at a push? Or do you want a team built?

Comment 69, made on April 11, 2009 at 4.15 pm

James said:

... 1-0 Wigan

Comment 70, made on April 11, 2009 at 4.20 pm

Fitzy_7 said:

... yes come on!!!!!!

Comment 71, made on April 11, 2009 at 4.26 pm

r0bb0 said:

... Hasn't MON come out and said that there isn't big money available in the Summer? It could be that after the expectations being raised so high in recent windows they are finally trying to temper the fan's expectations this time round. If so, I say thank goodness. Maybe we'll see a little more realism from everyone, but particularly the more impatient fans. Perhaps this is the 'honesty' that some have been asking for. If so, please let's not see a new witch hunt, but this time asking for Randy Lerner's head because he isn't spending enough. Let's all also remember that a lot of money HAS been spent in the last couple of years, and that the team HAS been improving. Ok, it's been evolutionary rather then revolutionary change, but I for one am patient, and happy to seem my team on the way up rather than down.

Comment 72, made on April 11, 2009 at 5.38 pm | url

r0bb0 said:

... Damian, I agree with you that honesty would be much the best policy even if it does bring pressure from some fans, but I can't agree when you say that nobody is trying to 'hound MON out'. There have been people on here(can't bring myself to say 'fans' as I sometimes doubt if they really are Villa fans)who have started to be overtly critical of MON and even saying he should go. I'm not talking about people (such as yourself) who question individual decisions he has made, but those who question his underlying skills and capabilities. Almost every other club in the permiership would happily swap their manager for ours and I do think it's important that the majority of fans make it absolutely clear that they are right behind MON and all the players even if they are unhappy with the occasional decision or result.

Comment 73, made on April 11, 2009 at 5.51 pm | url

James said:

... Oh dear, those Gooners are gonna be crowing. All or nothing on Sunday now.

Comment 74, made on April 11, 2009 at 5.57 pm

daniel wheeler said:

... nan i want a team built, but the way in which we are going about it shows little ambition imo. take heskey, i bet he is on 50 to 60 k a week.thats a lot of money for someone who dont score any goals. should have gone for owen at 60-80 k a week but wiil always get you goals. salifou sidwell shorey harewood knight not the players you buy when you are supposed to be going for top 4.

Comment 75, made on April 11, 2009 at 6.39 pm

Damian said:

... r0bb0 Anyone who thinks getting rid of MO´N would be good for Aston Villa is mad. The manager is the most important factor in a successful football team and if he were to leave then we´d be doing nothing short of what Spurs did when they got rid of Jol. O´Neill is an excellent manager, it doesn´t mean he isn´t going to make mistakes or that he can get us into the top four on a regular basis with the players he has now, but it would be madness to let him go. However, everyone is allowed an opinion, however wrong we and the majority may think of it.

Comment 76, made on April 11, 2009 at 7.05 pm

James said:

... I guarantee that had we signed Owen there would have been a lot of unhappy people. They'd have (rightly) suggested that he was past it and injury prone. He'd have been just as big a let down as Heskey. Players like him are available for a reason. If he was good enough to get in our 1st team and enable us to challenge the Top 4 then one of the Top 4 would sign him as a sub.

Comment 77, made on April 11, 2009 at 7.52 pm

Martin Clabon said:

... There is either a lot of people who want to get rid of MON or there are a lot of people who are very poor at expressing themselves. Time to blow my credibility completely. Was DOL actually that bad? He got us to 6th (afer from memory being 16th pervious season) with a small squad having been forced to sell and a lot fans thought he was the real deal at the time. He had F+++ all money to spend and an aging not particularly talented squad and his final season I remember us being dogged with bad luck. He gave Gabbi his debut and Stephan Moore looked like a great player for him. He signed Martin Laurson and NObby who I loved for a brief period. He was a bit unluck I think with Kevin Phillips and Baros not coming off. He got JPA playing again and struggled with some good players becoming liabilities (Hendrie and the Morocans) He was a really annoying bstrd but was he as bad as all that, with money he might have carried on the good start? I am now running for cover very quickly.

Comment 78, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.17 pm

Ken Bonker said:

... Kentucky, of course MON isn't perfect...no manager is but he IS an excellent manager, we HAVE progressed hugely under his leadership and to criticise him for winning nothing in just his first 3 seasons with us frankly ridiculous. We ARE a big team, but we are not one of the biggest. We have no automatic right to win anything at all and it's time that some Villa fans got real, appreciated where we've come from and stopped their self indulgent whining. Firstly So I'm being ridiculous for having an opinion? Have a bit of respect, I won't ridicule your reply, I'm not so opinionated But it's about time some Villa supporters stopped living in lala land, we are an average mid table side, and will continue to be so for many years, maybe permanently, there is no way we can compete with what other clubs in the PL can spend, or are willing to spend. MON made comments yesterday which backed that up, are we going to return to the lack of cash to spend as in the Doug days? He says "We won’t be able to compete financially. We are trying to run this as a business at this minute" Fair enough, like I said earlier, we are a mid table club and will continue to be so. Well that's enough of my "self indulgent whining" and being "ridiculous" if you don't like it robbo with two big OO's, tough, I'm entitled to my opinion the same as you

Comment 79, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.25 pm

Woodinho said:

... Sid, I've actually had thoughts like that myself, but in all honesty the club needed a fresh start and at the time and now I still think it was for the best that he went! All that calling us fickle nonsense and that letter writing business didn't really bother me because I know to a certain extent a lot of footy fans are fickle! I'm pretty sure you're gonna get a right load of shit from certain camps on here though!

Comment 80, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.31 pm

Fitzy_7 said:

... owen will be a villa player this summer mark my words

Comment 81, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.32 pm

James said:

... Kentucky To be fair I think the main problem is from people who are unable to accept your assessment that we are unable to compete. I actually with most of your last post. It is almost impossible, but we MUST try and we MUST support the man who is doing a great job of tackling the impossible. Finally if it is so obvious that we cannot compete how will another manager help?

Comment 82, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.33 pm

Martin Clabon said:

... Woodinho, agree it was time to change but it's just that he is demonised as if he took championship challengers and took them to relgation. In fact he took relegations contenders, took them to 6th (and could have been higher)had no money and some bad luck and left us where he found us. Venglos, McNeil, Turner, Taylor 2nd time round and arguably Gregory in recent years could have been said to have done worse

Comment 83, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.48 pm

James said:

... Are you wearing a crash helmet Sid?

Comment 84, made on April 11, 2009 at 8.54 pm

kieron said:

... Remember the GOLDEN RULE! Stick with a manager for more than a couple of seasons and he will bring success, its easy. So get off MON'S back you so called fans and give him the time needed. And in the mean time hope he isnt taken from us by England or Man.u.

Comment 85, made on April 11, 2009 at 9.20 pm

adam said:

... can someone tell me how sixth and fifth(maybe) this season is mid table for fucks sake and average i dont think so

Comment 86, made on April 11, 2009 at 9.32 pm

Damian said:

... Whoever mentioned O´Leary above then the answer is yes, he was that bad and the reason he got us to 6th place was ńew manager syndrome'- it got worse every season after ... Martin O´Neill has done it the other way - it´s got better every season. Why we would or anyone would, consider changing that, baffles me.

Comment 87, made on April 11, 2009 at 11.35 pm

Martin Clabon said:

... The boss says get behind MON and that is good enough for me. We are better than mid table. The question is, if we get behind MON and back him to the hilt how much better can we be. We'll never know unless we commit to making this something special. Our part may not be as important as the players or maybe most importantly Randy's - but we have a part to play.

Comment 88, made on April 12, 2009 at 12.06 am

James said:

... I'm so nervous about the game I'm not going to sleep. Not even sure I'm going to be able to watch. May have to be from behind the couch like 70s Doctor Who. I need bigger balls.

Comment 89, made on April 12, 2009 at 1.29 am

FKev said:

... Krulak is a joke, i got Banned from Vital for daring to question the general about kicking fans out of our cherished seats to make way for the corporate fans in the name of progress. We are still the people that put our money in to the club. The general is a parasite misleading fans & taking the $. Perhaps he should have taken us all for a bag of chips to make it OK ot hand out a flag to commemorate a competition the could not be bothered with. The clubs PR is turning us into glory hunters, I was taken in on their arrival believing we were in it together but its all about self promotion & securing Randys investment. So many fans are happy for us to sacrifice today for a tomorrow that will never come. Give up on the cups for champions league, sign shit players like Heskey to save funds for when we are top of the league is just bollocks.

Comment 90, made on April 12, 2009 at 11.25 am

Michael said:

... shut up FKev. anyone got any views on the News of the World 'Exclusive'? it says that villa will have to trim there squad down if we dont qualify for champions league? that we need to get rid of a few fringe players who are earning alot of money - barry will b the firts to go, followed by reo-coker, shorey, harewood, knight, gardner and carew. i dont believe it, if we sell all them we will need to buy 14 players in the summer to have a big squad that we need. we would probably get £25-£35million for them lot if were lucky, so would have to spend £80-£100million to have a bigger squad than this season.

Comment 91, made on April 12, 2009 at 11.38 am

Damian said:

... mickey86 I read that article .. and it wouldn't surprise me if true although I suspect the NOTW have gone a little far with it. If anyone truly believes Lerner is here to do anything other than make himself a few quid and hope he can take Aston Villa in any other style other than Doug Ellis, then I personally think you are delusional. I'll say this also; they sell Craig Gardner and there will be a lot of unhappy supporters. They should never have gotten rid of Cahill - who is doing well now for Bolton and they do not want to be selling Cahill - otherwise, why have a fucking youth system.

Comment 92, made on April 12, 2009 at 11.53 am

James said:

... What other reasons are there for investing in a football club?

Comment 93, made on April 12, 2009 at 12.23 pm

Damian said:

... Nanwasafan We don't know why Lerner invested in Aston Villa but I'd say and I'll get stick for this, it was because he got a good deal. I don't think he would have or maybe even could have, bought us if the price was £100mn. + this will ride itself out over the next few years and while I like what O'Neill is doing, as in building slowly .. we all know that to compete with the top four, we're going to need to spend the money at some time .. and I don't think it will be made any easier if we try and do it when we actually finish in the top four. Watch Man City this summer .. I fancy they'll go mad. I'm not saying it is right or nice .. but they may buy themselves a top four place much like Chelsea did and in 10 years time (maybe longer) most will have forgotten that and in 10 years time, who would care.

Comment 94, made on April 12, 2009 at 12.31 pm

James said:

... I don't think they will manage to buy a place. I think they will try, but the game has changed since Chelsea did it. It changed because Chelsea did it. You could back then have a great manager and a well built team (long term) or a good manager and a 'bought' team. Now I think you need a well built team, a great manager and a loads of cash. Why are Arse struggling a little at the moment? Change I think, but they've rode it out because of lots of cash and long term management.

Comment 95, made on April 12, 2009 at 12.40 pm

Michael said:

... i dont blame randy for trying to make money, anyone would unless say one of us were billionaires, then we would do it for the club but he still wants us to be succesful and i dont think martin o'neil would be here if randy lacked ambition. i think this summer will be the most important transfer window of them all, we have come close to 4th this season, now we need to step up and take it next season, this season we only needed to finish 6th or 5th so our transfer dealings wasnt that bad. but now spurs seem to have found there feet, man city will be there aswell, west ham are looking good. next season it wont just be us and everton fighting for 5th place so we need to spend. jagielka, glenn johnson, matt taylor, joleon lescot, arteta, cahill, kranjcar, owen and crouch will be very much welcomed at our club, that would be my dream summer transfers, with just harewood, shorey, salifou and unfortunately barry leaving.

Comment 96, made on April 12, 2009 at 12.51 pm

FKev said:

... Heard it all before, how it will happen in the next transfer window. Talk is cheap when we are renewing our season tickets. They are asking for the renewals even earlier this season. Wonder Why ? I have no problem with Randy not putting his money in but just let us know we have no money for players. MoN can must act better in the transfer market & earn his huge wages. No more paying way over the odds for near proven prem players like milner.

Comment 97, made on April 12, 2009 at 8.45 pm

FKev said:

... On the same front Randy should run us like a buisness. Get in a big sponsor instead of getting a big pat on his back. I am sure Acorns would prefer a big donation say half the sponsorship money rather than an advert along with them being our main charity

Comment 98, made on April 12, 2009 at 8.53 pm