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Money, money, money: Does it make Aston Villa go round?

It's normal at this time of year for football fans to urge their owners and chairmen to open their chequebooks large and spend, spend, spend. Because, of course, massive spending is the key to success.

The FA Premier League is awash with cash. Its receipts from TV companies dwarf those in any other country on earth. As an FA qualified coach working with young footballers, I never cease to be amazed how little of that income flows to the grass roots of the game (and Trevor Brooking has done a singularly pathetic job at the FA in changing that).

Nearly all of the cash generated by the FA goes into players' pockets. Some, committed and at the peak of their profession, deserve it. I wouldn't begrudge John Terry or Steven Gerrard - for example - the money they earn: they are at the pinnacle of their own profession, and the pinnacle of any profession earns big bucks.

But the cash paid to less committed players is a disgrace: Robinho springs to mind...a player who doesn't really want to play for Manchester City, but does it because it earns him a fortune. He tries when it suits him.

I was hugely impressed that one of the first investments Randy Lerner made was in the Bodymoor Heath training facility. Everyone in the game knows that players take training facilities massively into account when choosing new clubs. Putting the extra £8m into Bodymoor helps us strengthen an already excellent Academy, but also assists in persuading new recruits to come to Villa. After all, it's basically their "place of work".

So, back to money.

Tell me, how many Premier League wannabees have tried to spend their way out of mediocrity? Leeds? Newcastle? And the next, trust me, will be Manchester City - a football accident just waiting to happen.

I know that many Villa fans are impatient for success, and like them I want to see us break into the hegemony of the so-called "Big 4" sooner rather than later.

But I firmly believe that the right way to invest Randy's money isn't in short-term "trophy signings".

If we can't financially out muscle the "Big Four", then we have to be cleverer. We have to invest our club's money a) further into the Academy and the effort to find young players who are potential Premier League material and, almost more importantly, b) into a highly-paid and market-leading scouting set-up which is capable of unearthing young talent from around the world.

If you look at Arsenal, they have more or less balanced their books on transfers over the period Wenger has been in charge. Kolo Toure cost £150k. Robin van Persie £1.5m. Nicolas Anelka was sold for £23m to help finance the purchase of Thierry Henry for, wait for it, £10.5m.

It isn't about spending big bucks. The old laws of football, thankfully, hold true even in these money-crazed days: hire a good manager; invest in youth; set up a great scouting network and then turn unknowns into great players; coach well; prepare well; build a strong and winning dressing room, and be well-prepared and good enough to get the tactics on the field right on match day.

Villa's long-term success won't come from Randy opening his chequebook this summer to a whole load of big fat signings. In my view, it will come from an all-round focus on everything needed to build a healthy and prosperous football club. It may mean us just fighting Everton for 5th next season.

But I'd rather have that than spend £100m to get to a Champions League semi-final, Mr O'Leary, and in the process destroy a football club that many thousands of people love.

Short-termism is a very bad thing. And forgetting that football is about more than cash is even worse.

I hope Randy Lerner invests his money in the long-term health of AVFC.

Comments (49)add comment

ak_27 said:

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I agree with you for once but here is the million dollar question. Is MON the right man to lead this search for talent accross THE WORLD (not Britian)? Has he given us much evidence in his 3 years here that he can spot talent before the big fee goes on them?
Comment 1, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.30 am

Damian said:

Damian
...
Doc

I don't think you'll find many that disagree with you that the future success of Aston Villa is based on every department (current ones and ones that still don't exist) working to it's full potential and that it isn't just about money.

I think the main concern of some at the moment is that they have little confidence in O'Neill bringing in the 'smart' buys or spending the money wisely.

I can fully understand why they say it also, to me it is a floor in his plan, but I'm hoping things will change this summer.

We all want to unearth one of those players, found through the scouting network that turns out to be a real gem but do you fancy O'Neill is going to give him a proper run in the team?

Look at wee Shaun Maloney as an example .. I know O'Neill sees more in training and is looking for something specific on the pitch, but for me Maloney was never given a proper chance although some of what we did see from him looked extremely promising.

I agree with you it's not just about money, it's about building the foundations and making them all work well together, but can't it be about both?
Comment 2, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.31 am

darrenvilla26 said:

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ps - totally agree with the investment into the scouting system, you only need to look at a certain Lionel Messi - who was "unearthed" at the age of 13...come on Mr Chief Scout..get busy!!
Comment 3, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.32 am

TOPTIP said:

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BRILLIANT... Now buy BABEL for £12m and you can keep BARRY also.
WHY would he want to move to Liverpool to play less games, out of position and all in the world cup season. He is either an idiot or has similar motivations to Robinho and wants our money - WELL SOD OFF, we're keeping ALONSO and should buy JAVI MARTINEZ
Comment 4, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.38 am | url

ak_27 said:

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darrenvilla26 the scouts can be get as busy as they want the final decision still will rest with MON to buy them or not. He is the man that makes that decision. Chances are he would not have signed Messi as he would have thought him too light and small for his style of football.
Comment 5, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.39 am

Woz said:

0
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Also we have more of a desire to keep the quality we do have.... i.e. Barry. If we had had the same determination a few years ago we could have held onto Yorke, Bosnich, Platt.... The eyes of Ellis lit up when they were wanted elsewhere but Randy closed his eyes and ears.
Comment 6, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.40 am

David Tyler said:

TheMachine
...
I agree Doc... I am happy enough for us to be fighting Everton against a back-drop of underlying development.

ak_27 - can't we spend the million dollars on a player? smilies/smiley.gif

For me, he is the right man. The thing with the risks that brought, say, Hangeland and Vidic to the EPL is that one club had nothing to lose (not having the money or cahce to buy established EPL quality) and the other already a squad well capable of absorbing a miss-fire.

For MON, I think he thought his 1st step was to just to get the level up in each position. Once he feels he's there, there'll be plenty of scope for 'gambles' (Salifou, eg, was never a 1st team gamble, he was a gamble on depth I think).
Comment 7, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.40 am

David Tyler said:

TheMachine
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ak_27 sorry, not picking on you but wasn't AY a punt on a lightweight guy?

How many 'mistakes' have Benitez, Ferguson and Wenger made? Quite a few. Though when they come good, they obviously look great. Similarly with Moyes, having looked through his transfers yesterday.

Actually, the AY transfer was a bit like Benitez and Torres. Liverpool paid a fair price because Atletico didn't want to sell, not because they was a queue for his services. many of the top managers here and abroad have said since they just didn't think he'd score the goals he has.

Don't get me wrong, he's top drawer but the evidence wasn't as strong as you might think. Now he'd have only have gone to a player of Liverpool's standing but in relative terms was like AY coming to us. As we get better, we'll have more of a chance of finding such quality. Torres knew he was up to it so why would he set his sights lower? Same will go for other players.

People will look at Shorey as another poor case of signing and/or management. I was please when we signed him but was stunned by how out of place he looked early on.

It's all very well us looking at how well he finished the season and asking why he couldn't play sooner but (a) expectations of him were much lower when he returned so he could play less nervously and (b) he was coming into a team in a bad run so wouldn't have been worried about unsettling momentum.

All the evidence pre-signing pointed to a decent recruit, the only uncertainty being whether he could handle the pressure of being at a bigger club. I think he striuggled to handle that but equally I think MON has managed him through it. I think he might just be MON's first choice LB next year even with a fit Bouma because he's come through it and showed his determination to succeed.

I guess I could go on but that's gettin away from Doc's post so might appear on forum.
Comment 8, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.54 am

clarkamus said:

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just to say van persie was not 1.5 million no way more like 7.5 kinda irelivant but worth pointing out . have faith in oneil!!!
Comment 9, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.55 am

VillaDude said:

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One of the biggest concerns Ellis had during the end of his spell was that he stopped trusting Oleary with the money. I clearly remember one of the quotes he came out with regarding DOL trying to sign Bakke..."He can't even get in the Leeds first team, there is no chance we will be signing him". This was soon after DOL had moaned he wasn't being given any money to sign players and the squad wasn't good enough.

The reason I am saying this is because you have to look at MON's signings and think of value for money. He likes to buy english players, they have over inflated prices and there are a handful of big english signings that have sat on the bench (Reo Coker (8m) Sidewell (5m) Harewood (3.5m) and haven't returned any value for money.

Randy clearly also commented that players will need to be sold to raise funds as well as backing from himself.

Does anyone feel Randy has picked up on MON's limited appeal and knowledge in the transfer market?
Comment 10, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.57 am

testie said:

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Agree with most of what you say Doc. Although, if we look at Everton and Moyes he has been there for what 7 years or so and clearly established Everton as the best of the rest. It seams that this steady development has taken them as far as they can go. According to their chairman they are now looking for some heavy investment as he knows that without huge financial clout breaking into the top 4 is near impossible. I think we need this steady build up for sure, but at the same time we need to spend big if it is needed, if a player that will be quality and improve the team is available get him!!. I don't mind if we don't spend huge this summer, but i will be pissed if we don't fill some of the obvious holes in our team such as a dominating CB and CAM etc.
Comment 11, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.58 am

jerry said:

churchill
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Impressive stuff, Doc.

The going will get tough next season – tough for everyone. The increased competition from Spuds, Everton, Man City Fulham and maybe West Ham will guarantee that. When that happens and the moaning starts I hope Damo will have the nous to take this article out of the archives and repost it. Just to remind us that bringing success will take time.

Damo says he senses a subtle change in posters attitude to O’Neill. That quite perceptive - I sense a subtle change in my own feelings. This change isn’t due to any lack of faith in the qualities that I believe O’Neill possesses but simply an awareness that the expectations are higher now and fans can grow impatient. Two consecutive sixth places have provided the solid base; can O’Neill build on that?

I urge you to look to the bigger picture. Aston Villa is a club that is now taken seriously. People now expect us to achieve things. We should remember Lerner is a wealthy owner amongst ‘super-wealthy’ owners. O’Neill cannot spend in the fashion of Man City or Chelsea or Man U and even if he could he cannot walk into Tesco’s and pick up class players of the shelf and march them to the checkout. He has to stick with his core beliefs and principles; if he abandons that then we’re lost.
Comment 12, made on May 28, 2009 at 10.59 am

swanseavillan said:

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ak_27 2 words young and ashley
Comment 13, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.02 am

testie said:

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Villa Dude - MON only uses a small number of players not 100% sure but is it something like 16 in prem?. If i was the owner then i would expect him to sell some of the players that he does not use to raise some funds because it makes no sense having players eating up wages when they will never play. Just makes sense. I think that Learner backs and trusts MON, it may seem that he has no idea in transfer market at times yet we have shown an improvement each year he has been in charge so i don't think he has any reason not to fully back him.
Comment 14, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.16 am

ak_27 said:

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AY cost 9.5m. I thought we were talking about finding players early before they get expensive? Now yes we will make mistakes and MON will buy duds but you know what i'm ok with that as long as he is having a go and trying to be inventive. But bringing the likes of NRC, Znight, Harewood and Routledge i am not ok with. Most people who follow football could have told you these players would not work. They have been around the league for some time and MON should have taken that as a clue that they are not good enough. If he was to change his transfer policy to bringing in young promising foreign footballers and they don't work out I would actually not be too unhappy with MOM as at least he is trying something different. And you might just get lucky and find a gem.You will not find any gems sitting on the bench of teams that are below us in the league.
Comment 15, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.17 am

Nick said:

nick_not_nicky
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I agree with the post Doc. But I also agree with Damian about MON and how he uses our players, or in this case doesnt use our players.

Maloney is one example, another could be Gardner, or the fonz. If MON and his scouts can find the gems will he play them? Can we develop the talent like an arsenal would?

One of my biggest gripes with MON is his stubbornness in team selection. In my opinion (and the top4 managers apparently) properly rotating the squad is VERY necessary. Especially when you are trying to develop a 'squad'. Can players develop by sitting on the bench?

But anyway I am looking forward to see the types of signings we are going to make. People expecting stars will be disappointed I believe
Comment 16, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.17 am

The Mighty Steve said:

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Why does every Liverpool fan who comes on here sound like a 12 year old?
Comment 17, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.18 am | url

testie said:

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I don't know, why does every Liverpool fan who comes on here sound like a 12 year old?
Comment 18, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.26 am

ak_27 said:

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nick_not_nicky i agree with you on that. I love to see the likes of Bannan and Forrister, Clark and Albrighton have some decent prem time under their belts by now. Hopefully next season we will see them but MON needs to trust them and take a chance. He will learn nothing about them if they are only playing reserve football. But MON is extremely cautious by nature.
Comment 19, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.28 am

Eoin Greene said:

eoin1981
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Well I agree with AK_27. Ashley Young is one obvious discrepancy but we did spent 9.5ishM on him - so he was hardly picked from obscurity.

MoN signs players whose reputations have allready been built. He has no record of signing players from the continent. All his signings have been overpriced and Brittish. Even Ashley Young was expensive - a similar prospect from a european league would have been 1/3 the price! What the hell is our scouting network doing?

MoN has brought through NO academy players. Gabby was started off by O'Leary and was MoN's first choice as he had no-one else. Please dont say Gardner and Delfouneso have been given a run. MoN's huge reluctance to play the highly rated youth players is shown when the first team have injuries - why has everyone from our first 11 been tried at right back and left back and youth not given a chance? Why when we replace a player during the game do we make 4 positional changes? Why if we are comfortably leading do we never give a run out to a few subs - blood some of the young players?

For the record Doc - I agree with what you are saying - I just think that we have the wrong manager for that philosophy. Also - I think Arsenal are just about the only club in europe who successfully have this philosophy - along with perhaps Barca.

Finally - I dont know why everyone talks down Man City's chances. Its not their own money that they are spending and they will be spending much much more than the likes of Spurs used to.......give them 2 seasons and lets see where they are...

Another thing - people say they dont want to win the league like Chelsea did!! Whats the problem? I dont care if we spend ten times what Chelsea did to win the league! Its not our money! I would take 1000000% more satisfaction in buying the league than in sitting where we currently are for eternity!
Comment 20, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.30 am

James Sutton said:

Jammer
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Good post doc agree with you about the investment in youth and scouting. Who do you coach out of curiosity? I have been coaching at wythall juniors for the last 3 years with as we call them the babies u6,u7 and now they are u8 about to go to u9 and we have 2 astonishing players at the moment who were snapped up and the start of the season by wba and the scum nearly a full year later the villa scout turned up and just showed so much arrogance saying well just tell them its villa it really quite embaressed me to be a villa fan. These scouts need to be out there straight away looking for talent and yes I know what everyone will say you cant tell at these young ages how good they will be but I am actually thinking of going to the bookies and putting money on 1 of these lads making it as a footballer he's already that good!!! Villa really do need to invest in more scouts not just abroad but here looking for the young talent of tomorrow in my opinion.
Comment 21, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.30 am

GregdaVillain said:

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i want success and i want it now, lerner throw out the cash!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment 22, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.40 am

ak_27 said:

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Whilst we are on the whole scouting and youth team theme. Who was the last real technically gifted player we have brought through our ranks? We seem excellent at bringing out speed merchants but i can't remember too many guys that can pass and take people on.
Comment 23, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.43 am

clarkamus said:

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i think it is quite clear in martin oneils transfer policy is that he buys players that are nice down to earth decent people that he knows will work hard and not be a complete pain in the ass we proberly have the niciest squad in the prem but is that a totaly good thing? i dont think it is now it has got us this far but you know the old saying and its not nice guys finish first. the club needs to go on to the next level now and lets hope this transfer window will show us that is whats happening (players in( sturridge,owen,vermalen,defour,naughton,juhrasz,bently,
biglia) all qulity and 2 4 free.........

Comment 24, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.46 am

clarkamus said:

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mbark boousafa worth a go also as good as ashley y. thats half of anderlect in there anway!
Comment 25, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.52 am

ak_27 said:

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clarkamus i would be happy with all those signings to be honest. Maybe swap Owen for Tuncay.
Comment 26, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.53 am

Doc said:

Doc Bowles
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Jammer - I coach the juniors at Cirencester Town
Comment 27, made on May 28, 2009 at 11.55 am

croni said:

croni
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Spot on Doc, great piece
Comment 28, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.01 pm

James Sutton said:

Jammer
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Ok doc, I coach at wythall juniors. Just as another piece about the youth scouting mon will have no input until they get to say 14/15 under this age it is generally left to the scouts and the head of the academy. Also sadly most scouts remit these days seems to be just to look for big strong kids who are quick, well thats from my experience anyway. Although like this kid I mentioned he has been taken for his skill but he is quick as well!
Comment 29, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.16 pm

clarkamus said:

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tuncay for owen really? not so sure myself we would have to pay for tuncay and dont realy think he would fit in with our football? wish i was mangaer of transfers or at least had a peak at martins real list

Comment 30, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.17 pm

ak_27 said:

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clarkamus MON won't have that list done for at least another 6weeks smilies/wink.gif.
Comment 31, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.19 pm

jerry said:

churchill
...
Whilst we are on the whole scouting and youth team theme. Who was the last real technically gifted player we have brought through our ranks? We seem excellent at bringing out speed merchants but i can't remember too many guys that can pass and take people on.


Have to agree with that. Agbonlahor is just another sprinter who has too little technical ability. And he knows it. Which is why he has no inner belief in the way that AY has. Loss of confidence = loss of form. Mentally, he's fragile.
Comment 32, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.20 pm

Panos said:

Panos
...
Good stuff Doc.
Comment 33, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.22 pm

Doc said:

Doc Bowles
...
A correction on my part and a quick answer to Clarkamus: Van Persie transferred to Arsenal for £2.75m. I think I'd call that a decent bit of squad-building, even if his agents are now giving Wenger a headache. Rumour has it Barcelona may bid £45m for Van Persie and Fabregas in what the media just loves to call a "double swoop". Can't see either of them making the starting XI, mind...
Comment 34, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.23 pm

Christian said:

Christian1983
...
I'd love to agree with the article, Doc, because its what football should be about. But unfortunately, with the exception of Arsenal, it does all boil down to money.

If you can pay the transfer fees and offer huge wages you will get he best players. Sure, you will get a few duds and misfits along the way (look at some of Chelsea's appalling signings) but the 'rich' club can afford these setbacks and will just buy some more. It's a shame but it's how it is.

I agree that steady progress and unearthing gems here and there would be fantastic- but its a slow process and during this process some of the 'gems' will be targeted by the Big 4 or will simply want a new challenge (Barry with us, Berbatov/Keane from Spurs, Lescott/Arteta will be looked at I'm sure over the summer etc).

So, as much as we'd all love to see gradual improvement, and we have by consolidating 6th place, it's virtually impossible to crack the top 4 with this method.

It's sh*t but football is a business and, like businesses, big ones will bully and squeeze the life out of the smaller ones.

Until we have MAJOR investement (yes, agreed we'll lose some of our soul) I think we'll have to settle for Top 5-8 and a few good cup runs.
Comment 35, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.29 pm

Paul Egan said:

PaulE
...
Great post, Doc.

A bit of common sense and perspective.
Comment 36, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.49 pm

Mark said:

AVMark
...
The trouble with fans who spout on about the "little gems" that supposedly other managers can find and ours can't is this - they fixate on the "gems" and don't realise how many other players the manager bought turned out to be duds. I like our squad, out of all the players we have bought I would only question Shorey and let's not forget, many managers would not have had the integrity and guts to drop their signing as much as MON did this year.
Comment 37, made on May 28, 2009 at 12.51 pm

frosty said:

0
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Slightly off the point ..

I'm English and think Ferdinand is the most over rated player of my lifetime. When up against world class it's not hard to see the bloke is utter shite. I think Curtis could do better (ok I'm going to be realistic and not put Knights name forward)

I would also hate to see Gardner sold - he will be worth 7 - 9m in the next 3 years, I said the same about Cahill and look at him now, infact he should probably be Ferdinands replacement.
Comment 38, made on May 28, 2009 at 1.01 pm

Mark said:

AVMark
...
On the subject of slightly off point: I had to laugh this morning listening to Talk Sport when a fan rang in and called Fergusson "tactically naive" - says it all really.
Comment 39, made on May 28, 2009 at 1.12 pm

David Tyler said:

TheMachine
...
I would love Barcelona to buy Fabregas and Van Persie smilies/cheesy.gif
Comment 40, made on May 28, 2009 at 1.12 pm

andrew said:

HOOLY
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What a load of crap.Invest in youth and scouting,we put the hard work in then along come 1 of the top 4 and pinch them look at wigan for example.We need proven quality players at the right age,tie them into to a deal which buy the time its run they wont be worth another team coming in for them.As for inpaitent,I have seen us win nothing of any stature in my time so i've waited my whole life.
Comment 41, made on May 28, 2009 at 1.18 pm

jerry said:

churchill
...
Jammer

nearly a full year later the villa scout turned up and just showed so much arrogance saying well just tell them its villa it really quite embaressed me to be a villa fan.


My blood ran cold when I read that, Jammer. I hope someone at the club reads this blog and does something about this.
Comment 42, made on May 28, 2009 at 1.41 pm

villaster said:

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Id take sustainable growth over a quick fix any day...this year we had an oppurtunity when one of the top 4 was slipping, the chance will come by again im sure.

All we need is 2 more ashley youngs (bentley maybe)and a martin laursen, Im sure sidwell and reo coker will come good to cover for barry, id love to see milner in the centre too, he'll score much more.


UTV
Comment 43, made on May 28, 2009 at 2.10 pm

james t said:

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we all know that it will again be us and everton and possibly pompey that are just behind the top four and possubly top 4 next season. let tottenham and mancity spend all that money on rediculous players it hasnt got them anywhere has it. i think in randy lerner and mon we have two of the best people in the business.if can get bentley in, a good centre half and oba femi martins and a few others well have a great season, not forgetting his plans to refurbish vp. we have a loyal manager and chairman and 1 thing most clubs dont hvae so.... UTV
Comment 44, made on May 28, 2009 at 2.20 pm

Villain down South said:

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Part of the problem is the strangle hold the top 4 have created on the league. If the league was more open with a variation of teams finishing in the top 4 there wouldn't be this requirement to spend huge amounts of money trying to break into it. I fully support the point that we Villa shouldn't spend huge amounts and should look to develop and bring on good young English players. How proud would we all be if we could achieve it this way?!
Comment 45, made on May 28, 2009 at 2.54 pm

James Sutton said:

Jammer
...
I know churchill it was just unbelievable!! You're right as well I hope someone does read that from the club and address it.
Comment 46, made on May 28, 2009 at 2.55 pm

FatKevs said:

0
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I think some people really believe you win things down to the clubs History. Just because clubs have spent money & failed means they alway will fail is bollocks Look at chelsea.
Reality more Clubs Fail than suceed so it is east to point them out to back up negativity.
Clubs get relegated for not investing.
I think we are trading on good fortune & we will only ever have 1 or 2 top 6 players in our team at best is that a winning formulae.
How far have we progressed in cup competition
How many matches have we controlled
Yes we finished sixth over the season but we ended the season with relegation form.
BJ says we can replace GB & ML yes we can but with shirt Numbers only not simular quality.
Randy has had my money early this year to dine out on but i do not expect him to give anything back
Randy The New Ellis without the Flair of binging in a big name stiker like JPA Collymore Savo - (Heskey Says it All)
Comment 47, made on May 31, 2009 at 11.49 am

Graymo said:

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Can people please stop saying that spending money hasn't got Man City anywhere. I would bet you my house that in the next 3 years they will be up at the top. You can argue that money doent buy success but there is a difference between having money and having the kind of money that Man city have and Chelsea have.
We need to throw money at our club and buy the damn league like everyone else. And one more thing.. is MON really that cautious... look at some of the total and utter crap he has spent big money on. Research has shown that organisational performance leads to job satisfaction more than vice versa so lets keep this in mind.
Comment 48, made on May 31, 2009 at 1.40 pm

Fatkevs said:

0
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A Step in the right direction would be to have players not leaving every few seasons due to lack of ambition.
Players wanting to come to VP not just because they are 2ns string are injured or there clubs force them out.
We have spent a lot of money but the Name Aston Villa has still been scoffed at
Comment 49, made on September 03, 2009 at 9.51 pm

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