State of the Football Nation: Does anyone like John Terry?

With no Premier League football coming up this weekend, we could start looking at the prospects for the various Villans due to be in international action. But quite frankly there isn't much excitement in Shay Given's sore shoulder, so why don't we as football fans broaden the scope a little?

Football is, always has been and always will be a matter of fierce and conflicting opinions - which is why debate on this blog is usually lively. So to alleviate the numbness of having no Villa game to look forward to on Saturday - let me cast out a few broader opinion hooks and see what I catch.

Should John Terry be in the England squad?

We've all seen the news that Terry is in the squad but won't play against Spain. What grey-suited numpty came up with that compromise, then? Firstly, if Capello means what he says about trying out the younger players - then why include Terry in the first place? Secondly, the guy is subject to a police investigation into criminal allegations. OK - he hasn't been proven guilty of anything - but for crying out loud, in any other working environment, he would be suspended on full pay "subject to investigations".

I'll come clean - I don't like the man. For my money, you would have to look hard to find a player less suited to be an England captain, to represent our nation. I've seen Chelsea at Villa Park and Stamford Bridge over and over again: Terry is always the first to lead his team mates into the referee's face. Dissent is his natural disposition. He defines it. Respect? Forget it.

Putting aside the Wayne Bridge affair, wasn't Terry also the inarticulate mishap who tried to lead a TV-facing revolt against Capello during the World Cup? In many countries, I would imagine that would have signalled the immediate end of an international career.

But, for me, far more than that: isn't Terry a) the captain and defensive marshal of a team who are lacking form, and who have let in more goals already this season than in the whole of last season and b) a player who has been repeatedly tried in top-level international tournaments and repeatedly come up short?

There is no point in selecting or playing John Terry for England. Guilty or innocent of racism, he is a never-been at international level and is in poor form.

Should the England players wear poppies?

Sepp Blatter's FIFA has not exactly been a role model over the past year or so in managing its own PR. But this takes the biscuit, doesn't it?

As far as I am aware, the poppy is no more than a mark of respect for the millions of people - of all nationalities and persuasions - who have lost their lives in wars. I am not very political - when I wear my poppy, it's simply for me a way of remembering a grandfather I never got to know. I'm sure it's like that for most of us, as well as giving a humble nod to a bewilderingly massive number of people who were forced to suffer in ways we'll never understand, and who had not much say in it.

FIFA has shown itself once again to be crashingly thick and irresponsible. The sooner the self-appointed mandarins who purport to run our game are shown the door, the better.

That's why I think this is the perfect opportunity for the FA. The whole country is behind it, smarting from the World Cup award and its inherent corruption, and pissed off by FIFA's raging anglophobia.

The compromise is just that, a compromise. It's time for the FA to pick the fight with FIFA that Blatter has been spoiling for. You and us Blatter, outside, now!

Should Man City fire Carlos Tevez?

I watched a local under 12's game last Sunday. Before it, a collection came round to get funds for some new corner flags. During it, the side for which my son plays had no subs, so the central midfielder had to work box-to-box all game and came off the field dead on his feet.

His reward was a round of applause from all the watching parents, a tousle of the hair from his coach and a chocolate muffin from a caring mum.

I wonder if the lad will ever begin to understand the Carlos Tevez affair. How could you not want to play? How, when given a lifeline back into your squad (ie forgiveness) could you not be bothered to turn up? Why would you not do anything for your teammates?

So my gripe isn't with Tevez. It's with a game which has started its Respect campaign at grass roots - where you'll see role models every Saturday and every Sunday, wherever you go. Instead of at the top level where, in my view, role models are few and far between.

Think about it: in the comment thread below, tell me a player in the Premier League for whom you feel deep affection and respect, who you think would serve as a role model for your own kids, whether or not you have them. You'll find it hard, I'll bet.

In my view, and it's just my view, Tevez should be held to his contract and left to rot in the reserves. City can afford it.

But more importantly, start Respect at the top. Not the bottom.

And by the way, my answer to the question above is Stiliyan Petrov. No John Terry - thank God. No Carlos Tevez - thank God. A decent, humble, hardworking professional who gives his all and who may not be the most gifted player in the Premier League - but is just about the only one I'd invite to my son's birthday party.

Comments (93)

Subscribe to this comment's feed

Villa by Birth said:

... Great post Damo - we should be allowed to broaden the spectrum on occasion - comments Terry should never play for England again - he's a thug but more importantly he is not the player he was - move on! Poppy's should be on the shirt and we should not bend for the idiots than run (sponge) our great game Tevez - he should not be allowed to play for a club in England again

Comment 1, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.00 am

Damian said:

... Cant take the credit for this. It is Doc Would love to .. but not me. As for Terry - his time has come and gone. He should accept it and move on. Problem is his ego now ..

Comment 2, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.24 am

Paul Simmonds said:

... Football would be much improved if we no longer had the rich owners of Man U, Man City and Chelsea buying trophies. If players who constantly demonstrate that they are poor human beings (Terry, Tevez, Barton)were sacked by their clubs. If England and several other "traditional" nations left FIFA. If loans between premier clubs were outlawed to stop so-called "big clubs" stockpiling players. If Sky dropped out so that we could have 3.00 kick offs on Saturday again. If some of the money in the game was diverted to making admission cheaper to encourage kids. If the inflated champions league reverted to a knockout competition. If in the FA cup the lowest placed team was always at home. If any young player Villa developed was not assumed by the London press to naturally want to leave for Scousers, Manc and Spurs as soon as possible. There is no chance of any of the above ever happening. I love the Villa but despair of football.

Comment 3, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.25 am

Villa by Birth said:

... Sorry Doc - great post I note you chose not to mention Mr Barton "super hoops"

Comment 4, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.40 am

caleb said:

... Now that we know Doc isn't a Villa fan, is he always going to write about stuff nothing to do with villa? Shame, I enjoyed his posts about things I cared about.

Comment 5, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.46 am

Damian said:

... Paul Simmonds this is just a personal thing, but i dont like to bracket manchester united the same way as chelsea or manchester city .. they did it differently sure, they spend the money now, but it was organic to a much larger degree

Comment 6, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.51 am

Damian said:

... caleb i think you'll find he is a villa fan ...

Comment 7, made on November 10, 2011 at 9.23 am

John Salter said:

... Can't stand Terry. He was always vastly overrated. I'm sure he's not a racist but I'm also sure he said what Ferdinand has alleged. Yes to poppies. I spent 25 years in the forces but wear one for my own reasons not because it's the thing to do. Should Mercenary City fire Tevez? I'd rather they all just went away pox ridden and covered in herpes!

Comment 8, made on November 10, 2011 at 10.10 am

villarobin said:

... Everyone i know hates John Terry and has done ever since he burst on the scene and promptly was being done (or not done) for some GBH charge outside a nightclub. There is just something in his Eyes / Face which screams *unt.. It seems that "Being a good footballer" excuses basically anything these days apart from Rape / Murder and even rape is possible. Money as always is the problem, if you have shelled out 40 mill on a player who acts like a t**t and doesnt train or beats women up what do you do, write off £40mil ? Also players are totally protected from everything by the players association or whatever its called. Where England is concerned there is no excuse though, Terry should A - Never have been captain in the first place with his background, and B - should have been sacked from the England set up..

Comment 9, made on November 10, 2011 at 10.32 am

werd said:

... apparently england are wearing poppy armbands? it seems egos demand a compromise in all things.

Comment 10, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.12 am

frosty said:

... If Terry gets banned Evra wants kicking out of football for good. Racism has no place but I'm getting sick of people jumping on the badwagon so easily, it works both ways!

Comment 11, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.16 am

Fagan said:

... The is nothing wrong with the Doc supporting 2 teams. I have always supported 2 teams, The Villa and any team playing against the Blues. I don't think anyone likes Terry. I always remember that tackle he done against Milner at Wembley and only got a Yellow card for it. Regarding a role model I agree with Petrov, I also think Bent would be a good role Model and although he is not in the Premiership Beckham is a great British and football in general role model.

Comment 12, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.17 am

Steve Palmer said:

... It would be good if John Terry received the same media treatment as the likes of Rodney Giggs or Gerrard...instead of the constant witch hunt to bring him down regardless of facts. He was cleared of all affray charges to the guy above with the preconceptions...unlike Stevie g....who got off despite damning cct evidence; no evidence found against any of the allegations "saint" Wayne bridge's ex (tho Bridge did Abandon her & their child to shag his way around Manchester). Never mind that Terry gets selected European Coaches for the euro XI team of the season you all know better...prejudice it works both ways!

Comment 13, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.27 am

davidc said:

... Terry is indeed hateful. He's like a bigger Dennis Wise. They're both cut from the same cockney wide-boy cloth (sorry if thats prejudiced but there you go). Tevez - he should be made to go around Billy Sharp's house and squirm in embarassment for a day. for those that don't know..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/01/doncaster-middlesbrough-championship-billy-sharp

Comment 14, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.35 am

shane villains said:

... Interesting post Doc i usually hate mixing politics and football due to the fact i cannot stand politics and its politiciians. But in this case seems worthy of some good banter, I agree and disagree with you on some points you have made. On John Terry, The F.A And England I agree with you Doc on Terry is with out a doubt the worst England captain i have ever had the misfortune of seeing wear the armband he is a complete and utter disgrace. The man never learns from his mistakes and he contunues to do them as long as he keeps getting away with them. Not only is he a poor human being he is a factor in England's failure to create a good team spirit. Capello has proved to be a poor manager at international level the fact he would give the captaincy to some one most decent people would find hard to like yet alone respect shows his lack of sensitivity and shrewdness at that level. Terry has always proved in the past to be a poor excuse of a human being yet alone cap[able of being a role model or leader so i do not blame him entirely. I personally place most blame on both Capello and the F.A for never taking stronger action against him in the past and present they have always known him to have poor character like the rest of us yet they rewarded him with the arm band. Stronger leadership is clearly needed at the F.A to put a stop to all these type of shenanigans. They should have concluded the investigation by now put it to bed. On The Political Poppy Scandal Funny enough it never was political until Prince William and David Cameron felt the need to open their mouths and got involved. Cameron using the poppy sentiment for his own political gain should have been enough to prompt FIFA to dismiss the request on political interference grounds. FIFA should have stood firm and have shown a lack of strength and inconsistency in their leadership. The poppy should never be used as for political agendas as it clearly has been hijacked for in this case. In addition it should be an individual choice for the players or any one not a requirement. Remembrance day is there to mark the end of war not support it. This could and should have been sorted out behind closed doors not leaked out to the media and used as some sort of point scoring scandal which it has become. All the parties concerned should be ashamed of themselves it trully is disgusting. On Carlos Tevez victimisation And Role Models I disagree with with you on this Doc the lad is not the worst human being or player i have witnessed in my life time as a football fan and am sure you neither. And anyone who suggests he deserves to rot in the reserves is quite frankly ridiculous and biased to the lad for whatever personal agenda or reason. Yes he has not helped his own cause at times but in current circumstances he is only human and all involved have known his temperament which is not that much different from Rooney's. Only difference Rooney's defended and seems to get away with alot more and never victimised in the same manner. This all Tevez affair was a power struggle between two individuals the player in question and the manager (Mancini) which has quite frankly been blown out of proportion. This time last year Tevez was being aplauded and praised for his professionalism and ability as a player. Adebayor then i think was in tbe firing line. All this media spin generated to assasinate the poor lads character is for the sake of selling more papers or gaining more ratings by the media. Quite frankly i never allow myself to be swallowed up in the media hype and its agendas on any given subject or story. Role Models Off The Pitch As for the role models debate i have never understood why some parents still insist on footballers being role models for their kids off the pitch. The only place a footballer should be a role model for the kids is on the pitch its the parents job to guide the child off the pitch not the player. I can understand in John Terry's case as england captain but in Tevez case it does not hold much weight. Parents should be the role models for their kids off the pitch in life not the players.

Comment 15, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.42 am

pazzler said:

... its hard to talk of role models when, even on tv, you see supporters in the stands making hand gestures/abusing players. if you look around those people swearing, etc at players you will see young kids nearby. morals/values comes from all sections of society, but starts at home. yes sport can play a big part but shouldnt be looked at as a standard bearer. but yes, john terry is a poor player. found wanting at the highest level, exposed at the world cup. players like lampard, gerrard, terry etc should not be selected for england - they earn world class wages, yet somehow that makes them world class players. with regards to the poppy row - the pm/prince williams involvement smacks of paying lip service. if the players wore suits with poppies before and after the game, isn't that a show of respect or deemed enough? keep football and politics apart i say. as for tevez - just a circus act.

Comment 16, made on November 10, 2011 at 12.55 pm

j0nny said:

... It depresses me that Villa could have half the England team if we had kept all our player's!!! Given L.Young Cahill Dunne Warnock Downing Milner Barry A.Young Agbonlahor Bent -Taylor,Clark,Cuellar,Bannan,Reo-Coker,Albrighton,Heskey For me that team would be top six!! It pisses me off!!!

Comment 17, made on November 10, 2011 at 1.00 pm

j0nny said:

... Hart Walker Smalling Jones Gibbs Gerrard(C) Rodwell Wilshere A.Johnson Rooney A.Young For me scrap the old - Lampard,Terry,Ferdiand, but not gerrard you still need a leader in there with experience. For me that should be th enegland team for now on and future... In a few year bring in Cleverley for Gerrard and either Jones or Smalling could have the captaincy... i know its inexpreienced but still that team has everything, two quality centre backs, flying full backs, a holding midfielder in rodwell, a driver in Gerrard, And a 'Playmaker' in wilshere, Rooney in the false 9 position with pace trickery and graft on the wings!!!!

Comment 18, made on November 10, 2011 at 1.11 pm

Villapete said:

... Terry and Tevez both symptoms of the same disease that is premiership football they will not be the first and they will not be the last....and when they earn as much as they do they probably do not give two sh*ts what we all think. At least Terry has been loyal to Chelsea though (again difficult not to be on his salary and in their present era!) Personally think Cappelo been a disasterous manager and lacked leadership even on poppy issue...could not imagine Ferguson allowing such drift in so many issues.... Wether we like it or not sport and politics often get mixed in the same pot....poppies should be worn. Full stop. At times football can be a great vehicle to remind us of the more important things in life....

Comment 19, made on November 10, 2011 at 1.36 pm

gregdavillain said:

... anyone no anything about the gabon v brazil match tonight? Im seriously strapped for cash and was gona throw my last 700e on brazil to win 200e back? but as its this months rent money im unsure

Comment 20, made on November 10, 2011 at 1.48 pm

Gwatkins said:

... I think on the whole Poppy thing people have totally forgotten the purpose of the poppy. It is something we buy to raise funds for the a the British Legion. This is a great cause that gives money to ex service men and families of service men. Whether the England team wear them is largely irrelevent as long as they buy them in the first place. Rememberance day is really important but you dont have to wear a poppy to pay your respects. The players could have laid a reef and a minutes silence would symbolically have been just as good as wearing a poppy. This whole debate has been sturred up and there are loads of examples in the past of internationals being played over this weekend, poppies havent been worn and it has never been an issue. As I said the whole point of the poppy is to raise money. The players could have pledged their match fee's and this would have done far more than the wearing of a poppy.

Comment 21, made on November 10, 2011 at 3.22 pm

steviec said:

... j0nny I should think your team would be top six....you have 18 players in it!!!!!

Comment 22, made on November 10, 2011 at 3.31 pm

shane villains said:

... Gwatkins you make some very valid points there mate makes alot of sense the parties involved seem to only care about point scoring and personal gain than the actual meaning of the all thing quite disgraceful.

Comment 23, made on November 10, 2011 at 5.32 pm

The-Lynx-Can said:

... Why have the F.A and so many/few players kicked up a fuss about 11/11 ? Is it media spin? or am I just a victim of media spin?

Comment 24, made on November 10, 2011 at 7.10 pm

The-Lynx-Can said:

... It just annoys me, prima donnas and a corrupt F.A, trying to make a stance for a proper working mans job and heritage just takes the piss. I bet none of those tossers have even heard of Walter Tull.

Comment 25, made on November 10, 2011 at 7.20 pm

Fagan said:

... Nice to see Emile Heskey Jump on the Music Video band wagon with an even nicer jumper than John II Makoun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70102WX57Rk&ob=av2n

Comment 26, made on November 10, 2011 at 7.21 pm

gregdavillain said:

... nice one downsized my bet from 700e to 200e and brazil duly obliged, only 60e rather than the 200e but il take it

Comment 27, made on November 10, 2011 at 7.25 pm

villa_1874 said:

... I like john terry, one of the few england players, along with david beckham who look proud to be wearing the england shirt. as for this racism nonsense, definitely been blown out of proportion. If he used the 'N' word then yes, that would be racist, but if he used the word black then that isnt racist. Paul Scholes was called a ginger p***k throughout his career, no-one battered an eye, peter crouch is called a lanky t**t all the time, no-one cares. but when someone is called black (a descriptive word like ginger and lanky) then all hell breaks loose. if using the word black, to refer to someone is racist, then lets call an end to the much celebrated black history month or the MOBO (music of black origin) awards.

Comment 28, made on November 10, 2011 at 7.53 pm

theirishvillan said:

... For the good of football. 1) NO 2) No 3) Yes

Comment 29, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.08 pm

Randy Learner said:

... Terry, overrated cuckold scum. Capello, no spicy meatballs by the looks of things. Spot on about Fifa , how can they have any legitimacy with all the bribery? Tevez, can't they keep him and fine him two week wages every month or two for taking the piss. Google is evil, but not as evil as facebook.

Comment 30, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.20 pm

gregdavillain said:

... get in gary gardner

Comment 31, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.21 pm

gregdavillain said:

... get in gary again

Comment 32, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.23 pm

mooseman said:

... I know it was only Iceland, but how come Gary GArdner gets on as a sub and scores 2 for England U21 but cannot get on for the Villa?

Comment 33, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.33 pm

VancouverVillan said:

... I think you'll find that there are a number of football associations that would like to see the back of Blatter, the FAI would probably be the first on board given the whole World Cup qualifiers suddenly becoming a seeded fixture even though when they started it wasn't meant to be seeded. This inevitably led to the infamous moment of Henry thinking he was playing Gaelic Football. Anyway, I'd love to see Gardner get a start, there's a lot of hype around the fella and if he's scoring then his confidence should be on the up. Might brighten an otherwise dull season.

Comment 34, made on November 10, 2011 at 8.49 pm

theirishvillan said:

... Okay I know they are not players but I have a huge amount of respect for the likes the likes of Everton's Bill Kenwright and David Moyes and Wigans Roberto Martinez and Dave Whelan. As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong but Kenwright could have sold the club on more then one occasion and continues to hold onto it until the right person and not the right bid comes in because he loves the club too much to see it go to just anybody. Moyes has had more then one opportunity to leave but stays knowing that he will have no money to spend under Kenwright's ownership. Then you have Whelan and Martinez, Whelan is the owner of a club that looks destined for the Championship and he has stated that even if that happens he will not sack the manager because he believes in him and you know what, I believe him. Whelan also said that if the Premier League was to abolish relegation he would remove the team from the league altogether as it would destroy the history of football in England and I believe that he would too. Then there's Martinez who had the opportunity to join Villa an altogether bigger club with money to spend but he decided to repay the managers faith in him and stayed. These are all men with integrity and pride who believe in themselves, their football clubs and the ideals of the beautiful game. I have no respect whatsoever for the FA, UEFA but most of all FIFA.

Comment 35, made on November 10, 2011 at 9.04 pm

Billy.VIlla said:

... I cant believe the Doc is still writing blogs on here.... Are we playing QPR again. Did he not come out and say he is actually a QPR fan. Is he taking the qPr.....yes i think he is.

Comment 36, made on November 10, 2011 at 10.12 pm

Villain in Australia said:

... I agree mooseman surely Gardner must be close to a 1st team call up

Comment 37, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.31 pm

Villain in Australia said:

... thats how you take a free kick well taken goals by gardner to http://www.goalsarena.org/video/under-21-u21/10-11-2011-england-5-0-iceland-euro-u21-qualif_en.html

Comment 38, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.39 pm

nickers said:

... Billy.VIlla Doc's been writing on this blog for years - we know he's a Villa fan and we know he's been a season ticket holder for yonks, mate. If he's got a soft spot for QPR - so what? If he grew up supporting QPR, so what? At least he brought his kids to Villa Park - and if he's prepared to spend 5 years of his life blogging about Villa but not really supporting them then he may have some mental issues. I have him down as a fan. And with more and more empty seats (my lord) at every home game, we need all we can get. Good on ya Doc

Comment 39, made on November 10, 2011 at 11.50 pm

AdamVilla said:

... good post damo, ` this maybe unpopular but I think keep the poppies out of football, I myself am happy to wear the poppy, but it is a political statement which I think is better kept out of football ? villa_1874 neither ginger or lanky people where enslaved for over 400 years because of there ginger hair or height, they are not subject to criminal profiling or reduced quality of life because of various reasons which I will not go into. every thing you you say is true.. BUT there is context..? ps Im not a fan of Terry On Petrov. yes.. think sometimes people forget that there are a number of hard working professionals in the prem! that do allot of charity work etc .but that does not grab headlines does it

Comment 40, made on November 11, 2011 at 4.15 am

AdamVilla said:

... oh yea.. make tevez clean the boots ant toilets at man city !

Comment 41, made on November 11, 2011 at 4.16 am

neil57 said:

... Great post, Doc. Terry is pure scum, I hate him. He is totally disrespectful. The Poppy should be worn with pride and respect for all the young men(and women) who gave their lives for our today. People who say no to poppy wearing, I feel contempt for. Gary Gardner should be playing NOW. I have always been a fan. He is better than Herd, Albrighton and Delfouneso. As some say, if we are not too careful, we will lose all four. January is crucial to Villa. I will despair if any of our youngsters leave and include Bent and Agbonlahor. Gabby has the chance to be one of the biggest legends we have ever had. I agree with the views that so many of our ex players are England regulars. Barry and Young, I have no problem with. Cahill was a grave error. Milner is young and ambitious. I despise Downing, he is like Terry, out for himself. Oh well. UTV

Comment 42, made on November 11, 2011 at 7.28 am

Cantbebothered said:

... Why shouldn't England players wear a poppy on their shirt a poppy is not a political statement, it acts as two things,1 to raise money who people who served their country and 2 to act as a sign of remembrance for all people who died serving their country what ever side they were on. In times where most kids only see war on tv or ps3 it is even more important to remind them what happened in the past to prevent it happening in the future.Typical political correctness gone mad, What next knock down offensive war memorials, cancel remembrance Sunday. Wear your poppy with pride honor and remember your war heroes whatever conflict they served or died in, they fought to give you the freedom to do so, otherwise they did so for nothing.

Comment 43, made on November 11, 2011 at 8.46 am

Cantbebothered said:

... AdamVilla People have been enslaved for thousands of years people of all races,sizes,hair colour ect. Jewish people in particular over centuries have persecuted and enslaved does this also mean you can no longer use the word Jewish to describe a person who is Jewish without it also having racist undertones?

Comment 44, made on November 11, 2011 at 9.03 am

windofchange said:

... Gabby withdraws from England squad with hamstring strain. Unlucky Gabby again.

Comment 45, made on November 11, 2011 at 10.12 am

korean villa said:

... i hate the ginger man because of the football he has produced his entire managerial career. simple as. i hated it when he was in scotland, i hated it when he was with the blues. nothing about him says flair. he is a mongrel. he abandoned the blues to come here out of selfishness, knowing how much it would destroy the already fragile villa support. it wasnt a difficult decision for him, just the actions of a money grabbing, selfish w***e . everything he says lacks class. everything he says is bulls**t lies. he said downing going nowhere…downing goes. he said he will drop defenders for mistakes…still plays them now he say bent aint goin nowhere… bye bye bent? he doesnt have one original, interesting thing to say before, during or after games. the man is simply a coward, the face of the yellow lerner regime. he might as well have someones hand up his a**e . a puppet, a muppet. a filthy malleable chicken who cudnt give a rats a**e if we go down. not a bother to him. of course the fact he managed blues is the cherry on the icing on the rotten cake. i hope my feeling are clear.

Comment 46, made on November 11, 2011 at 10.52 am

windofchange said:

... How many can hand on heart actually say they are aware of the sort of football McLeish played at any of his other clubs with the exception of the clowns? Becausae I cant as his career was of no interest to me until he arrived at Villa. I have since learnt that he managed the last club to split Celtic and Rangers in the league at a time when both were spending heavily and he won trophies at Rangers and in the scheme of things did well with Scotland we seem to be being clowded in our view based soley on his time at the clowns!

Comment 47, made on November 11, 2011 at 11.04 am

Pace said:

... windofchange surely this is the most relevent place to judge him on though - the premiership? I have the misfortune of watching Blues a lot(as my in-laws are noses) and if the measure of a manager is to get a group of players to play together so the whole is greater than the individual players I would suggest AM achieved the exact opposite. Blues had decent players last season - too good to go down - but they were awful, the football was awful. I think most blues fans would agree with that. I'm not completely anti AM - now he is here he should be given a reasonable chance but I don't think it's going to be pretty.

Comment 48, made on November 11, 2011 at 11.41 am

korean villa said:

... his link with the clowns is the tip of the iceberg. most haters hate him because they are aware of his track record for producing s**te. current debacle at aston no exception. any manager coming here with the same managerial product as mcleish wud get the same treatment.the mans a waster

Comment 49, made on November 11, 2011 at 11.43 am

windofchange said:

... Pace: take on board a lot of what you say but I also think (without being an apologist for him) he seems to work with what he has at his disposal. Korean villa: respect your view but I could not tell you the footballing ethos of any manager in the SPL so that was the same when AM was managing in that league but he did have success and success at any level surely has to be positive. Granted his time at the sty was a disaster in premiership terms 2 relegations but as hard as it is I am trying to look beyond this,I did not want him anymore than the next man but I fear he will be here for the long term and if I dont start trying to find a positive to him then my support of Villa after watching them for over 40 years will seem worthless.

Comment 50, made on November 11, 2011 at 12.11 pm

Rob_The_Villain said:

... The thing with Villa is that we seem to put youngsters in the team when they're 20+ years old. By then it's too late! I've no doubt a lot of the youngsters we've had over the years were good enough to feature in the first team before that milestone. You look at the top teams, the majority feature a lot before they're 20 yet we seem to hold our players back. Early PL experience is crucial to the development of a player. Take Fonz for example, was one of the top up and coming youngsters that was getting rave reviews (not just from inside Villa), now what's happened? He just wasn't given enough chances early on and I fear now it's too late. His confidence has been crushed (he looks a shadow of the player we saw glimpses of) and he'll be lucky to make it as a Championship player. Gardner needs to be featuring now! I just hope guys like Daniel Johnson, Juan Serrano, Michael Drennan, Graham Burke to name a few are given a chance... and soon!

Comment 51, made on November 11, 2011 at 12.15 pm

Damian said:

... windofchange prior to him taking over at rangers i took little notice but i've had a little look. he did well at motherwell for 'one season' before then struggling with relegation battles and moving on to hibs - where it is fair to say, he did okay, but finished 3rd this is all wikipedia, so i'm taking it with a pinch of sale, because on wikipedia i won the premier league in scotalnd but then he came to england and we all know what happened but his best season was his first - after that, not much until rangers and even then, not outstanding, just average

Comment 52, made on November 11, 2011 at 12.51 pm

windofchange said:

... In 1994 -1995 he managed Motherwell to runners up in SPL. Given the competition he had that was pretty good.

Comment 53, made on November 11, 2011 at 1.13 pm

gmjvilla said:

... With the right man-management Gary Gardner could become our Stevie G. I have the belief that he could be that good. Same goes for Ciaran Clark. I really want him to be our John Terry (without the controversy) instead of the next Gary Cahill. For Gary and Ciaran and some of the other promising kids to make it we need the planets to align... What I mean by that is, we need an intelligent footballing manager with great man-management skills and 5/6 good, strong experienced first team players who can take the pressure off the kids if we have an off day. Right now I don't think we have either of these things. Let's hope we don't live to regret that.

Comment 54, made on November 11, 2011 at 2.05 pm

Damian said:

... windofchange but you could argue 'new manager syndrome' for that one - his first - season

Comment 55, made on November 11, 2011 at 2.15 pm

shane villains said:

... windofchange you really are mad if you think McClueless is going to be here for a long time. Only Villans with attitudes like yours are the ones who will keep him here for longer than he deserves to be. Fact is he has no loyalty he came here for the money he has got it now he needs to go before he destroys our club which he is very capable of. We Have To Learn From The Blues Or Face The Same Fate Funny thing is some come on here criticise me for bashing him when i know more about is career to date in the premiership than they do. McClueless took over a decent Blues squad from Steve Bruce well away from the bottom 3 who played decent football too by the end of that season he had them relegated after he was allowed to run havoc in the transfer window. Steve bruce went on to take over a bottom 3 Wigan club with lesser players that same season but by the end of the season they had took the blues spot and stayed in the premiership. I cannot emphasize enough how clueless our current manager is after the blues were relegated he had a chance to rebuild he was backed by the del boys more than any other manager in the championship that season yet they just about made second place for the automatic qualification spot. Yet Chris Hughton rebuild a Newcastle squad with hadly any backing from Mike Ashley to go on to break a points record in the championship when they were relegated. Reason why we now seee the blues playing better football than us in the championship due to the fact he is a better manager at this level. If we getting relegated while the blues are getting promoted we will be the biggest blues joke in our history probably thats why he came here. Like Ron Saunders went on to relegate the blues for us and later almost done it to Westbrom too. Hopefully Lerner has enough sense to already be looking for a replacement maybe he can shock like he did with the Bent signing BY firing McClueless and bringing in Rijkaard or even Mark Hughes. Below is our club values from our clubs customer charter pay attention to the bottom line of it. Is McClueless delivering on that and giving us value for money??? Our Values You achieve nothing in football without a superb team ethic - both on and off the field. This togetherness means everyone counts. Everyone's role is important. We're proud of our heritage and focused on future success. We have a firm commitment to be as successful as possible, and to embrace equality and diversity through Villa in Harmony. Everything we do must have integrity and be in the interests of the club. Our policy is one of openness and we welcome input from all.We want to provide visitors with the best possible experiences - full of entertainment and excitement. Our Hierachy Have To Leran From Cleveland Browns And The Middlesbrough Southgate Mediocrity Lerner should not allow us to become a mediocrity and reflection of cleveland browns. The longer McClueless stays the more it edges closer to that. I remember Southgate at middlesbrough being left by their owner then when he was appointed to slowly and gradually turn middlesbrough into a mediocrity. Their hierachy ignored their fans warnings through out siding instead to listen to the so called experts and other rival managers words of wisdom to stick with him. Look where they are now reduced down to an average championship side struggling to make it back up to the premiership. Its their poor fans who have to deal with the mediocrity and life in the championship while the so called experts stay comfortable in their chairs season after season. Now they have moved on to help relegate someone else this season probably with a bet on us to get relegated with the help of the likes of Ferguson.

Comment 56, made on November 11, 2011 at 3.53 pm

windofchange said:

... shane villains I dont want him here for a long time I just happen to think he will be, cant see RL selling up or paying him off sadly.

Comment 57, made on November 11, 2011 at 4.16 pm

windofchange said:

... Damian: still managed to split the old firm that cant be argued with and has to be seen as a positive.

Comment 58, made on November 11, 2011 at 4.18 pm

MBE said:

... it also says on Wiki that McLeish is openly gay. Is this a wind up as I have never heard this before. That it really matters just a bit random to be on there.

Comment 59, made on November 11, 2011 at 4.31 pm

Pace said:

... who cares whether it's true or not! fantastic!

Comment 60, made on November 11, 2011 at 5.23 pm

korean villa said:

... windofchange he split the old firm at a time when celtic were piss poor, even by spl standards. even now, celtic have only just overtaken motherwell for 2nd place. ill warrant ginger was at the right place, right time back then. still, i don't put any creedence on success in the spl transferring to the premiership, ferguson excepted.

Comment 61, made on November 11, 2011 at 5.26 pm

shane villains said:

... windofchange said: 0 ... Damian: still managed to split the old firm that cant be argued with and has to be seen as a positive. Randy Lerner will sack him faster than a speeding bullet if he sees seats getting emptier every matchday with season ticket holders choosing to stay away and if you decide to go mke your feelings known. We cannot become like the jordies Mike Ashley is pissing all over them whoever he sees fit because like crack head on crack they keep turning up every match dAY. i think us villan have my dignity and sense than those toons cause thats what there cartoons no wonder their del boy owner treats them like that.

Comment 62, made on November 11, 2011 at 5.46 pm

shane villains said:

... Quoted the wrong one but you know which one my response is to windofchange

Comment 63, made on November 11, 2011 at 5.48 pm

Damian said:

... windofchange hands up - it isn't easy but you could easily argue it was a one off ... mostly because it was but, again, it isn't easy.

Comment 64, made on November 11, 2011 at 6.06 pm

pip said:

... it's Geordies

Comment 65, made on November 11, 2011 at 7.15 pm

HT Sweden said:

... OFF TOPIC Black Sabbath reunions! Rick Rubin will produce their first album in 33 years. A gig at VP for the local boys?

Comment 66, made on November 11, 2011 at 7.38 pm

nick_not_nicky said:

... Gary Gardner hit a magnificent cross field pass that was almost more impressive than his two goals. For those who didnt see his goals, the dead ball one is linked above somewhere in the comments and the second finish was class as well. He picked up the ball at the top of box and calmly slots it into the corner. This was the first time ive had a chance to see him play (being from across the pond). Ive read a lot on his scoring exploits before but he looked like a very tidy player, great feet especially considering he isnt a small guy. He looks quite a bit bigger than his brother. Also im not sure if the club have commented but it looked like the fonz picked up a minor hamstring injury in the first half. He came off as soon as he did it. Didnt look like a bad one just pulled up a bit. Also Tevez is a disgrace

Comment 67, made on November 11, 2011 at 8.28 pm

nick_not_nicky said:

... I thought the whole collapse against Germany would be the nail in JTs coffin. Should have been. I dont know why Capello bothers with him anymore. He's past it and its up for debate to whether he ever was good enough on the top stage.

Comment 68, made on November 11, 2011 at 8.34 pm

RobL said:

... Again Damo, Korean Villain, I massive speel on how much he dislikes the gaffer and the owner. Nothing to do with the post, based on no thread of the conversation under this heading and completely unfounded garbage! I'm not the biggest fan of our manager but so far it hasn't been completely dire! Please can we not do something to prevent muppets like this bombarding every single post? And just on the Cleveland Browns mediocrity, for all the non Americans, you do realize that the Cleveland Browns of old, with all the history etc are now actually the Baltimore Ravens? It is much tougher to bring in a franchise under a previously dropped identity and make it a success. It's not as if Lerner took the Browns and ran one of the more traditonal franchises into the ground. They were going to struggle regardless of ownership!

Comment 69, made on November 11, 2011 at 9.17 pm

Farkevs said:

... Pissed mid 50s broad street anywhere good to go Don't say home

Comment 70, made on November 11, 2011 at 10.26 pm

korean villa said:

... a bit harsh robl i thought blogs were there to allow us all to vent our feelings about our shared passion, be it good or bad. instead of arguing about my views, u go straight into insulting me. class act mate! i guess u will insult ht sweden next for going off topic mentioning black sabbath; even you talk about the nfl, nothing to do with the heading. im not going to call u a muppet for it. but its implied. anyway try & be respectful of others frustrations & views

Comment 71, made on November 12, 2011 at 3.09 am

AdamVilla said:

... Cantbebothered - I dont think it would be a good thing to abuse Jewish people. As I'm sure you know there is no law against/nothing wrong with DESCRIBING someone as black or jewish. We are talking about abusive language not descriptions. If I called someone a jewish c**t at work I would probably get fired, nobody would lift an eyebrow if I described someone as jewish. thus your point is entirely fatuous

Comment 72, made on November 12, 2011 at 6.13 am

Raz said:

... Do I like john terry? NO do I like Ashley coke? NO do I like most of the England players? NO

Comment 73, made on November 12, 2011 at 8.31 am

villat said:

... Terry is a pikey end of and one of the most despicable human beings operating in the PL at the moment....This disgraceful right/wing/Dailymail bulls**t f**king poppy b******s campaign over the last 7 days is a pure scandal designed to take the heat off that tramp JT

Comment 74, made on November 12, 2011 at 12.15 pm

Raz said:

... JT - Just t**t

Comment 75, made on November 12, 2011 at 1.04 pm

Tonybartonscoutedem said:

... Villat Your obviously a left wing liberal tw at, who doesn't like the mail printing facts about people like you dirty scrounging rats.

Comment 76, made on November 12, 2011 at 1.10 pm

.vogra said:

... Just setting off for to the England game, real pitty Gabby is'nt playing, to be fair playing Phil Jones in midfield is suicide, I can see a pure dry bumbing session coming on, not a fan of Spain, very pretencious side..need to kick them off the pitch ole school style...this is a game we need a Joey Barton, yes he's a cnut...but he'll kick Xavi round the pitch..

Comment 77, made on November 12, 2011 at 3.38 pm

Villa mad dad said:

... ITV coverage is sickening. Any spot the deliberate JT and AC shown together before kick off?

Comment 78, made on November 12, 2011 at 4.13 pm

Bahamavillan said:

... Shame about Gabby, would have made the game more interesting. Right now Gabby can terrorise any defence. Would have been good to see a local villan lad, who is completely different from the modern professional footballer, get his chance. He conducts himself in the way Michael Owen always has.

Comment 79, made on November 12, 2011 at 4.55 pm

shane villains said:

... pip said: 0 ... it's Geordies I know pip its just a different way of saying it mate. you seem like you a fan of south park i thought you would have caught on to the humor behind it. Its also a in joke between my self and a jordie mate of mine. You see Geordie comes from the male name George but Jordie is also a feminine name. But moving on. Sad to see Gabby had to pull out the England squad due to injury this is the second time its happened to him, i really believed this was his game to shine. He was the main reason i wanted to watch the england match see our boy terrorise those spanish defenders, too bad hope Bent puts one in.

Comment 80, made on November 12, 2011 at 5.22 pm

villat said:

... tonybarton - I'm defo not LW liberal, i was just remarking how you stupid f**kin english t**ts got your knickers in a twist over a f**king poppy

Comment 81, made on November 12, 2011 at 5.46 pm

pip said:

... shane, i don't want gabby to shine for England as it would probably mean a massive city bid wouldn't be to far behind

Comment 82, made on November 12, 2011 at 7.30 pm

RobL said:

... Korean villain. The NFL was raised by a post previously made, off topic, by someone in this thread. The thread itself mentions nothing about the manager, yet your first contribution is to seemingly unprompted launch an attack at the manager. It's a gee up how often it happens, as realistically we are not sitting too badly considering what he was presented with to start his tenure here. I think you're probably lucky that most people on here are new to the blog, as I can think of many who would be similarly infuriated by encountering the same dribble every thread!

Comment 83, made on November 12, 2011 at 8.21 pm

Bahamavillan said:

... pip, Gabby will never leave us. He's one of us. One of those special players that will play for the shirt no matter what. Mark my words. Gabby should be a hero to all of us that sit on the terraces every week.

Comment 84, made on November 12, 2011 at 11.30 pm

Cantbebothered said:

... Adamvilla I would hope you would get fired for calling some one a c..t full stop. The point was you bought up the slavery issue in some attempt to prove calling some one black is different to calling some one ginger or lanky it's not. John Terry is being investigated for racial abuse not just verbal abuse because he used the descriptive black in front of his offensive language if he had used the N word then fair enough but he didn't .John Terry racist don't think so, Wan..r definitely.

Comment 85, made on November 13, 2011 at 12.37 am

Raz said:

... Villat, you're a t**t. Us stupid f**king English t**ts got our f**king knickers in a twist because we wanted to show a sign of respect for the men who lost their lives so w****rs like yourself could afford the Internet to spout that s**te. FFS

Comment 86, made on November 13, 2011 at 7.44 am

paco said:

... Villat.... I suggest you go and read what a poppy symbolises. It refers to world war one and two. A war everyone in this country/europe/Japan/america was affected by. It is a mark of respect for anyone of any colour/religion/nationlity who lost their life. If it wasn't for these remarkble people then you would probably not even be here now. Go and educate yourself and get some respect. You are a disgrace. So when you say English @****& where are you actually from? A place where both world wars did nor effect your family or country? The moon perhaps?

Comment 87, made on November 13, 2011 at 8.13 am

Maindog said:

... Villat You've made yourself look a right bell end! Looks like JT isnt the only disgrace to man kind. Hang your head in shame and lets hope you never post on this blog again.

Comment 88, made on November 13, 2011 at 8.55 am

JohnRBates said:

... Come on now boys, lets get back to the interesting points and balanced views, not this ranting,

Comment 89, made on November 13, 2011 at 9.25 am

shane villains said:

... villat, AdamVilla, Cantbebothered, Raz, paco, Maindog you have all displayed a good example why politics and football should never be allowed to mix in fact all sports in general if it can be helped. RobL said: 0 ... Korean villain. The NFL was raised by a post previously made, off topic, by someone in this thread. The thread itself mentions nothing about the manager, yet your first contribution is to seemingly unprompted launch an attack at the manager. It's a gee up how often it happens, as realistically we are not sitting too badly considering what he was presented with to start his tenure here. I think you're probably lucky that most people on here are new to the blog, as I can think of many who would be similarly infuriated by encountering the same dribble every thread! Try be a bit more direct who exactly are you referring too?? I made a comment about cleveland browns in one of my earlier comments on this very post comment 56. So if your reference is to me try be more direct. You see i have never really looked into our beloved ownner's Cleveland brown connection until this year when someone mentioned it in a comment on this very blog. In fact it was shortly after McClueless was appointed, that in its self was a good enough reason to. If you look at Cleveland Browns they have suffered from bad decisions being made on management level in their recent past and yes it is our beloved owner's Cleveland Browns. Bad coach appointments one after another from the poor management he put in place there like we currently have in Paul Faulkner and Krulak. You have to look at his record and past to know your club's custodian especially when such short sighted disastrous appointments such as McClueless are being made. It would be foolish to turn a blind eye and not, especially if you claim to have love for Villa. Unlike the NFL where they cannot get relegated we are always a couple poor decisions away from becoming a leeds, Nottingham Forest or Middlesbrough believe you me i have seen it happen tooo many times. Now i personally still chose to hold the believe Lerner still holds ambition for our club to prosper and get us back to the good old days like he promised but with his hands off approach we need a competent footballing director not Paul Faulkner to make the footballing decisions. I still trully believe Lerner means well for our beloved club and still holds ambition like it shows in our clubs customer charter; Our Message We're proud of our history and traditions but we don't live in the past. Instead, the glories of our past are a spur to write new chapters in the history of our club. The white star on our club crest signifies the greatest achievement in our history, while also signifying our ultimate future goal, becoming European champions again. But our beloved owner's hands off approach will not get us there when we have an incompetent management in place making the footballing decisions as we have already seen. Paul Faulkner as the man left in charge showed his incompetence when he allowed himself to be ill adviced by Ferguson in the hiring of McClueless. If we had a competent footballing director in place Mclueless would not be at our club. Thats a footballing director cardinal sin to seek advice from a rival club manager on your next manager. Did he really think Sir Alex would recommend a candidate whose capable of challenging hiS club and losing him 6 points?? Not a single one of his so called proteges have managed a good record against him in the premiership its not a coincidence. He is guaranteed points off any of them every season and this season we have been included because of McClueless, we are now one of his puppet clubs in his bid for another championship for United. To add to that would Ferguson care if we turned into a mediocre club capable of getting relagated?? Common sense answer is 'NO' he would be busy preparing is red devils to challenge for more trophies like he is now. If he held McCluelless is such high regard why did he not tempt even once in the past to make him his number too?? But this is what we get when we have incompetent poor management at board level.

Comment 90, made on November 13, 2011 at 10.47 am

shane villains said:

... On the England match last night am sure Darren Bent's header was goal bound that blues Frank Lampard stole his goal

Comment 91, made on November 13, 2011 at 11.06 am

villat said:

... Paco, I'm from Ireland where we've had our fair share of colonialism and civil war so i've a fair idea of what can happen in war situations....bit more than yourself i'd say! Not got a problem with remembering the dead, why didn't ingurland look to wear the poppy for Friendlies that took place close to remembrance weekend over the last ten years? Answer, there are two actually...number 1- this conveniently takes the spotlight away from the issue of JT and his 'alleged' racial abuse! Number 2 - it gives the english public, and the FA a chance to get one over on FIFA after the debacle of the World Cup 2018 fiasco! The mail and Cameron getting inj on the act was the final straw...Politics and football were well and truly mixed then!

Comment 92, made on November 13, 2011 at 7.20 pm

paco said:

... Villat... You really do talk utter rubbish. Pushing the poppy to protect terry. Your an idiot!

Comment 93, made on November 13, 2011 at 7.55 pm